Did chaos Demons break 7th edition fantasy?

[Dalleron]

Question says it all. Here's how it came about.

Me and a friend were discussing his getting into 8th edition. And it came to Demons breaking 7th ed. I said it didn't. Sure, some rules greatly improved the effectiveness of demons, but I don't think it broke the game. IMO, if any army was to have broken 7th ed, it would be, to me, Vamp counts, with spamming some spell I forget.

I don't mean this as a slight on 8th ed. I would love to get into it, but time and other things keep me from it.

[slxiii]

Question says it all. Here's how it came about.

Me and a friend were discussing his getting into 8th edition. And it came to Demons breaking 7th ed. I said it didn't. Sure, some rules greatly improved the effectiveness of demons, but I don't think it broke the game. IMO, if any army was to have broken 7th ed, it would be, to me, Vamp counts, with spamming some spell I forget.

I don't mean this as a slight on 8th ed. I would love to get into it, but time and other things keep me from it.

Yes. Demons made the game unbearable. One of our friends made on offhand comment that any random army list with any player could beat any army. We made our area's worst player play a proxy game with randomly selected(but legal) army selections. He played one of our better players and got a massacre.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Daemons pretty much just ignored important rule limitations and allowed them to sweep an army off the table from one good charge... At least that's what happend with my dwarfs, and after 3 games of that i quit fantasy all together.

[TheBitzBarn]

The simple answer is YES between them and VC they broke the game.

There was nothing wrong with Fantasy except two Armybooks

[Necron_Lord]

The simple answer is YES between them and VC they broke the game.

There was nothing wrong with Fantasy except two Armybooks

That was half of the reasons for the Matt Ward hate. The other was the fluff in the BA codex about the necrons and Dante teaming up to fight a splinter fleet and Dante finding it 'distasteful' to turn on someone he so recently fought beside.

[novatomato]

no deamons did not break 7th ed. it was all those army books after it that weren't as . . . . competitively designed that broke it.

facetiousness aside, if you look at the internal balance of the deamons book it is one of the better ones, but as far as externally balanced it was far off the mark.

[L192837465]

Match a Bloodthirster against any model costing the same, and the thirster will win, hands down, every time.

Deamons (and largely VC) ignored the rule of Warhammer. ITP, fear/terror causers, thus immunity, they couldn't break from combat, 16+ power dice with 8 casters, stupid ruled special characters (*Cough*changeling*cough*), and for deamons, an army that had -literally- no drawbacks. It could competitively slaughter everything point for point in every phase of the game.

To put it simply, yes, Vampires (80% at fault) and VC (20% at fault).

[Dalleron]

Interesting mention of "internal balance". Sure every army book should have worthwile selections, but I think to balance an army book internally, you would almost have to make an army book that could be itself. That's just thinking on my part. And if GW would actually playtest...

So if one could remove these 2 armies, would 7th ed be more playable?

[murrburger]

It might be, the strongest armies being Dark Elves/Skaven.

Still wouldn't be very much fun to play though. The whole edition was plagued by herohammer and 'deathstar' type units. It was no longer based on tactical movement/positioning like 6th edition was. (Yeah, I know. Chaos Knights.)

I honestly have not tried to play 8th more than a few times, and I wish it wasn't so based on magic. Oh well, I'll give it another go when Vampires come out.

[dragoon161523]

In my opinion it was not a problem, of course I play Lizzys.

My resume for my opinion

I took a combat-no Slann-list to ard boyz finals...the cheese of all cheese was in chicago. I specifically tooled my list to destroy daemons (Vampires never stood a chance against me any other time so no worries).

Top 3 winners determined by battle points-however look closely
Daemon-11.4k victory points
Daemon-11.4k
Vampires-11.4k

4th place....ME....victory points 12.6k

You ask...why did I not win 1st-lol

1st game-elves-major-cut teclis damn head off
2nd-empire-massacre -lol-shot his general sitting on a war alter with a steggy bow-3 wounds-he failed ward
3rd-brettonians-massacre-well krox with str 7 att whats a pointy stik gonna do-lol

If I had faced even 1 single VC or daemon list out of the multitude that were their I would just be saying I kicked their butt-lol.

I destroyed daemons with my lizzys, I hated not facing 1 single army in the finals, cost me dearly. elves had teclis plus dragons etc etc. good list which is why I only got a major. Bad luck facing armies I had to get more tactically involved with because of my tooling for daemons.