Those Wacky Harlequins

[Demonus]

So a question came up in our game tonight regarding Harlequins and assaulting someone in cover.

A librarian was in area terrain, and was assaulted by 5 harlies. We were unsure if the Harlies went on iniative 1, or on their normal iniative.

Harlies have flip belts, which ignore difficult/dangerous terrain. So one would think they attacked on normal initiative. HOWEVER, when you look at the Shadowseer upgrade, he gives the squad hallucigen grenades, which count as frag grenades for assault purposes. This would lead me to believe they attacked on initiative 1, because what would be the point of gaining hallucigen grenades if they already discounted the terrain penalty.

We rolled a d6 for the time being, but does anyone have an official answer?

cheers

[Commander Vimes]

The Harlequins do not strike at Initiative 1. Models don't strike at initiative 1 unless the have to take a difficult terrain check. This is different from 4th edition where initiative was reduced if the defender was in cover. So the grenades don't really do anything for the harlequins because they don't have to take terrain checks.

The only really obscure use for the grenades is that grenades let you take one attack at Str.4 against vehicles, so this will only happen if you charge a vehicle and don't kill it, and remain in base to base contact with the vehicle the next turn.

[Nabterayl]

Harlequins strike at their normal Initiative even when assaulting through Difficult Terrain, due to their flip belts. Ignoring Difficult Terrain means they don't get reduced to I1 per 36 of the main rulebook. Hallucinogen grenades thus have no extra effect for harlequins in 5th edition, except that they can be used in an assault against vehicles per page 63 of the main rulebook.

This rather odd result is due to the edition change. In 4th edition, assaulting units had their Initiative reduced (or, more accurately, the defending unit had its Initiative increased) if they were assaulting a unit in cover, which is not technically the same thing as Difficult Terrain (though granted, oftentimes a piece of area terrain provides both cover and is Difficult Terrain). Flip belts have nothing to do with whether or not the defending unit is in cover, which is where the hallucinogen grenades used to come in.

Nowadays, assaulting units have their Initiative reduced if they are assaulting through Difficult Terrain, which might or might not provide cover (and in fact, the target unit might or might not be actually in the Difficult Terrain in question). Because the assault mechanics have changed, the hallucinogen upgrade is essentially obsolete for harlequins. Of course, Shadowseers are still plenty useful in other ways.

[Demonus]

Excellent, thats what i thought but didnt want to cheat anyone. thanks all.