Chaos is...back?

[Bean]

Yeah. He must be in the same boat as me and bought a FW pre-heresy kit and wants to show it off. If that's the case, put 10 noise marines in it, and deep strike the termies anyways. Even though 4+abbadon isn't really quite enough to punch through stuff reliably while taking casualties.

Why noise marines? 'Zerkers are way better in that Raider--or even just plague marines, honestly.

[L192837465]

Why noise marines? 'Zerkers are way better in that Raider--or even just plague marines, honestly.

Zerkers can't take a charge. That LR gets popped, they're screwed. Noise marines have that glorious I5 at all times, plus the doom siren.

after that many points dropped in the termies, I'd say your cc is covered, your mobile firing platform is covered with the PM, and you need something that can take a charge and still fight back decently, while still being able to shoot well with tricks up the sleeve for objectives, which NM fill into very nicely.

Doom Siren = nightmares for marines in terrain on objectives. S5 AP3? No cover? sign me up.

[Bean]

Zerkers can't take a charge. That LR gets popped, they're screwed. Noise marines have that glorious I5 at all times, plus the doom siren.

after that many points dropped in the termies, I'd say your cc is covered, your mobile firing platform is covered with the PM, and you need something that can take a charge and still fight back decently, while still being able to shoot well with tricks up the sleeve for objectives, which NM fill into very nicely.

Doom Siren = nightmares for marines in terrain on objectives. S5 AP3? No cover? sign me up.

Actually, against almost all enemies, Berserkers perform better when being charged than Noise Marines do, thanks to their extra attack and extra weaponskill. I5 is nice and Berserkers are certainly much better on the charge than they are receiving a charge--but they're better than Noise Marines either way.

Noise marines may have the Doomblaster--and it is scary--but even scarier still to that squad-on-objective is getting charged by Berserkers--which is an option in every situation where your noise marines might have a worthwhile doom-siren shot anyway.

Berserkers are definitely the better choice for that raider. Of course, in this case, the OP might as well just put one of those Plague Marine squads in there, instead.

Consider a squad of assault marines charging either:

Noise Marines take 18 swings and 3 power weapon swings, killing about two marines. The marines then take 21 swings back and 3 power fist swings, killing 3 Noise Marines. Expected result: Noise Marines lose by one--and that's if the Marines don't get anyone with their pistol shots.

With those two extra marines, the Berserkers are about as likely to take four casualties as they are to take three--perhaps one more than the noise marines. But, in return, they take 27 swings and 4 power weapon swings--at WS 5. That's about four dead marines instead of two. Instead of losing combat, the Berserkers are likely to draw the combat or even win.

Berserkers are just better than Noise Marines at close combat, which is where the Raider-embarked unit should excel. Noise Marines are better at shooting, which isn't all that important for the guys in the Raider.

[BrokenWing]

"I bet someone posted a response."

Or they had an entire conversation =).

Lots to think about, will get back with another list as soon as I'm able.

[BrokenWing]

Also, some quick thoughts on the land raider stuff.

I love me some Land Raiders, but mostly I love Redeemers, bog standard Land Raiders I tend to think are far less effective than they should be. I took one because I wanted my nice assaulty unit to go somewhere. The idea of taking a bunch more with icons is an interesting one though. The only thing I like more than terminators is more of them.

[BrokenWing]

HQ


Grand Praetor Romulus (Abaddon)- 275

Elites

7 Praetorian Guard (Terminators) with lightning claws, mark of slaanesh, 3 with power fists and combi-meltas- 310


Troops:

10 Plague Marines, Champion, Power Fist, Two Melta Guns, personal icon-295
-Dedicated Rhino-35

10 Plague Marines, Champion, Power Fist, Two Melta Guns, personal icon-295
-Dedicated Rhino-35

10 Plague Marines, Champion, Power Fist, Two Melta Guns, personal icon-295
-Dedicated Rhino-35

Heavy Support:

3 Obliterators- 225

Defiler, 2 extra ccw- 150

-1935


65 points left. I'm debating dropping all the champions with power fists in favor of adding something like a Daemon Prince or what have you. Not really sure how necessary those power fists are going to be and that's 40 points per squad.

I decided I liked the idea of deep striking the terminators in with icons, I think that could be all kinds of useful.

[L192837465]

HQ


Grand Praetor Romulus (Abaddon)- 275

Elites

7 Praetorian Guard (Terminators) with lightning claws, mark of slaanesh, 3 with power fists and combi-meltas- 310


Troops:

10 Plague Marines, Champion, Power Fist, Two Melta Guns, personal icon-295
-Dedicated Rhino-35

10 Plague Marines, Champion, Power Fist, Two Melta Guns, personal icon-295
-Dedicated Rhino-35

10 Plague Marines, Champion, Power Fist, Two Melta Guns, personal icon-295
-Dedicated Rhino-35

Heavy Support:

3 Obliterators- 225

Defiler, 2 extra ccw- 150

-1935


65 points left. I'm debating dropping all the champions with power fists in favor of adding something like a Daemon Prince or what have you. Not really sure how necessary those power fists are going to be and that's 40 points per squad.

I decided I liked the idea of deep striking the terminators in with icons, I think that could be all kinds of useful.

Keep those powerfists. DP would be great, but having 3 useless squads isn't.

[BrokenWing]

Lol, that's fair. Still no idea what to spend the 65 on. The Chaos Codex doesn't have alot of "oh yeah, I'll just get one of those." selections for less than 80 points.

[Bean]

You can get another pair of terminators for 65 points. One with a combi-melta and a power sword, one with just a power sword and combi-bolter. They're not great, but a few extra wounds in there can't hurt--and neither can another combi-melta.

[BrokenWing]

True