Defiler or Vindicator

[CouchViking]

I am building a Khorne Zerker army for my new project and I was wondering, what heavy support option would compliment them best? A defiler with its long reaching battle cannon, base demonic possession, and multiple weapon configurations allowing for up to six attacks on the charge (pretty Khorny huh?). With out doubt it will draw incoming fire like none other giving my assault squads much needed time to get into assault. Taken in pairs and placed in cover behind my lines of berzerkers, their low ballistics skill and relatively moderate armor value are enhanced by redundancy of two battle cannons and survivability from cover saves. In an army where points are precious currency and lack of anti-tank sorely lacking, the simple thought of three-hundred points base firing at a squad of paladins or thunder hammer, storm shield terminators only to see it drift off or watch them save is not a pleasant thought. In a time of teleporting dreadknights, melta and powerfists galore, and razor spam; the size and speed make the defiler more like a risk that will either pay dividends or fail horribly (although I guess that applies for any unit in the game). A vindicator seems an almost perfect fit.
Armed with a high strength and low armor penetration value cannon and at a reasonable points cost, the vindicator comes in swinging for the win. Wait a second, a twenty-four inch range? Not to mention the vindicator needs to be placed out of sight so that it can work, meaning my assault squad's rhinos are drawing fire. If I do place my vindicators in the open demonic possession seems almost a must have upping the unit's survivability and still allowing them to fire but hiking up the price to that of the defiler. Then there is the phsycological factor that the demolisher cannon provides and you can't put a price on that, potentially using the vindicator to herd your opponent to the slaughter (not saying it will happen every time but here's to hoping).
I know I am comparing apples to oranges here but some feedback would be great as I have never used a defiler or vindi before.

[Hive Mind]

Personally I favour Defilers with two extra DDCW's in my Khornate army but that's largely because I favour the 'run at them and chop them up' approach and I hold 'fluffy' uber alles.

[DarkLink]

Unfortunately, while both Defilers and Vindicators are decent, they aren't Obliterators.

Then there is the phsycological factor that the demolisher cannon provides and you can't put a price on that

Actually, you can put a price on it. And it's not that great of one.

[mstingray]

I use both in my iron warriors army, from the reactions of my opponent he hates the defiler more because of it's close combat ability, although against anything with a powerfist it's likely to die. The vindicator is useful although against anything with a 4+ invulnerable save or better it doesn't do much. Personally I prefer the defiler for the long range of the battlecannon but remember against dreadnoughts or monstrous creatures you're committing it to death.

[Bean]

Unfortunately, while both Defilers and Vindicators are decent, they aren't Obliterators.



Actually, you can put a price on it. And it's not that great of one.

Exactly.

Of the two, Defiler over Vindicator. If you want a good unit instead, play Obliterators.

[Demonus]

meh Oblits are ok, but I prefer defilers. Oblits suck in CC, and can be 1 shotted by stuff as easily as Defilers can. Defilers look 10x cooler, and wreck tanks like no tomorrow.

[Bean]

meh Oblits are ok, but I prefer defilers. Oblits suck in CC, and can be 1 shotted by stuff as easily as Defilers can. Defilers look 10x cooler, and wreck tanks like no tomorrow.

Yeah, they do--if you can catch those tanks while they still matter (which is unlikely against an opponent who's paying attention. Personally, though, I don't like the look of defilers or obliterators.

[Denzark]

Oblits are a one trick pony. It is a good trick to be sure. But Oblits will die to enough small arms fire, Defilers only to serious efforts at shooting. A Tac squad equivalent (subsitute your army's troops choice here) will charge and lock Oblits probably happy that sufficient will die by PF whilst the ablative wound meat shield keeps the Sgt/whatever alive. They would have to have real balls to to charge a defiler.

The only thing defilers need fear in hth really is monstrous creatures, Dreads or something hitting at high S with better initiative.

Twin DCCW defilers are definitely more fluffy for your khorne army. Oblit synergy is best in the back line with your lash Prince (boring and easily countered and tricksy slaanesh not khorne) or teleporting in to TL melta stuff up close - a suicide squad.

Defiler>Oblits>Vindicator.

[DarkLink]

Well, the Vindicator is a massive one trick pony, and not a particularly good one at that. Defilers are much more flexible, but they have their own weaknesses. Obliterators, on the other hand, are relatively cheap and pretty durable, and literally have a gun for every situation. Obliterators are good exactly because they're not a one trick pony. Yes, they're not the most durable things in the game. But they're just about the most flexible long range firepower for their cost as well.

Chaos Marines just don't have a whole lot to work with, really.

[BrokenWing]

Dark Link makes an interesting point about Vindicators. I took two to the GT in my Space Wolf list and I have to say, for the most part they spent alot of time getting shot and exploding. That said, they were only 125 points and sucked in alot of shooting that could have gone to my more important units. One also went on a two turn high speed chase with a bike/storm shield Captain and won me the game by killing him (the mission objective was to kill the other HQ choice) with one shot, where the guy finally failed his invulnerable save.