Defiler or Vindicator

[mstingray]

That's the thing about vindicators when they work they work well, I had mine kill four wolf guard terminators and a rune priest in a single turn. Although some battles they would do next to nothing.

[DarkLink]

That's the thing. As scary as some noobz think they are, Vindicators in practice aren't particularly reliable. They're not bad, there are simply other things to spend points on that are more worth it, typically.

[BrokenWing]

Am considering keeping my list as a standard tournament list. Unfortunately the price of 2 Vindicators isn't enough to buy two Predators with Lascannons.

[Archon]

A Vindicator has still the capability of killing things right out. On a turnament a couple of SW-wulf-cavallerie killed my three terminators, my DP an the rest of the berzerker-squad only to end up bund up in the middle - where my vinid had a clean field of fire ... the only one left with a stormshild rolled a 2 so the four giant wulf riders vanished.

A defiler can´t do that, because of the "low" strenght of his main gun.

The other side of the vindicator could see on the side of my opponent in the same game. He deployed two of this tanks with a few inches left between them. I drived a rhino with smoke in his fire arc - one trailed far off, the second was saved by cover. Next turn my iniltrating choosen rolled over the flank and popped the first vindi. The second was shoot by my autocannon-havocs and was granted a pause of firing. The following turn it was wrecked too be the choosen.

The vindicator ist still a (fear) factor. Termies don´t like it an instakill is given up to T5. On the downside it´s side armour ist very vulnerable.

The defiler has rarley a cover save because of his bulk. The battlecannon ist still a battlecannon but with enough cover it´ll remove only a few MEQ even with a "hit". His best abiltiy is close combat againt vehicles or small units. I like it with autocannon cause its good against annoying speeder and the like. The surviviabilty is good for armour 12 because of the demon-engine, but it´still armour 12 and could by averagely killed with S8 weapons, wich came en masse in modern SM-Variants as SW or GK.

If i would run a khornate oder WE force, i will go for both of this warmachines, cause khorne loves warmachines. Havocs with long range fire still fell not right in a cc-oriented force and oblits ? From my view of thing oblits are okay fluffwise if you refer to the current codex but in genral the feel not right too, but i would still paint a couple of them (three) in red ... for turnament play for example.

[CouchViking]

Well, sounds like there is more love for the defiler going around. Archon your absolutly right about the lower strength of the defiler's battle cannon meaning no instant killing hq's and other pain in the rear units. Kudos for bringing up the autocannon, that right there put a big feather in the defiler's cap by giving it the ability to multi task. Giving the defiler diferent weapon load outs and giving it multiple rolls really filling in the gaps.

[Demonus]

I dunno about 75pts for something that is 1 shotted by a melta gun being "cheap". Hehe. All three have their uses of course. Remember, while that Vindicator took out 4 TWC with a good roll and the opponent not having cover, it would be defenseless if even 1 survived and charged it. The defiler laughs at most Str 5 shots, even rending ones in cc.

Id rank them

Defilerw/ Reaper +1 CCW 1
2 Oblits 1a
Possessed Vindicator 2

Try them all, play whichever is the most fun

[Da Gargoyle]

I like defilers and vindicators. My unit of storm guardians will do evil things to them both, if they get in assault range. My guardians with two fusion guns & accompanied by a warlock with enhance are actually more deadly to vehicles than to other troops units. That warlock's witch blade has a S9 profile against vehicles which don't get armour saves like troops.

[incenerate101]

The defilers ability to shoot the cannon on the move is a big plus in my book. When something is within assault range of your defiler you can simply move away hit them with the cannon and the autocannon then assault them if needed. Its survivability is much higher then either the Oblits or the Vindicator.

[Pendragon38]

I have to admit that the vindi work well as a pair, with bikes to help them survie a little longer by covering there flanks same can be said about rinos