A matter of taste

[Occam]

Why hello there, Internets!

One of the fellas at my local game store claims that he has been de facto banned from another store in the area supposedly because of the conversions of one or two of his armies. Namely, nasi Space Marines and/or nasi Imperial Guard. Now, I haven't gone out of my way to confirm the story yet but it does raise an interesting point nonetheless, which is, are there some army ideas or conversions that are too far or simply "off-limits" in terms of taste? How "far" is "too far"? Could I make a Mormon-themed Ork army? Or a mexi-ork army? Why not, the heads were featured here on Bols not that long ago. What if I made them all gingers? Has anyone else experienced this kind of thing before? Is there such a thing as an "offensive" army?

Now before anyone jumps up, let's remember our setting for mankind: 40,000 years in the future, where life, according to the big rule book, is cheap, the empire's "holy warriors" (grey knights) issue orders to exterminate hole planets seemingly with the same level of thought as say, ordering thai food. Genocide is a mass occurrence and the standing strategy of the army is to drown the enemy in bodies via attrition.

Post questions, comments and tomatoes below. Just not the face, NOT THE FACE!

[BrokenWing]

Of course there is such a thing as an offensive army. Look, the setting may be grim and dark, but you aren't making an army that will be seen by people in that setting, you're making an army that will be seen by people in real life. In real life, people can be offended by things.

[Occam]

Of course there is such a thing as an offensive army. Look, the setting may be grim and dark, but you aren't making an army that will be seen by people in that setting, you're making an army that will be seen by people in real life. In real life, people can be offended by things.

Thank you for commenting. Would you be willing to give an example of an offensive army? I found the above story from this fellow to be odd as in the same store, they play Axis & Allies and FOW, with a fair number of Axis/German players.

[BrokenWing]

Basically, if you have to ask if your army is offensive, it probably is to someone and it only takes one or two people to get you removed from a store. If you want an army that looks like that, you should be playing a historical wargame, where no one will find it offensive.

[Hive Mind]

I assume you mean ****? Space Marines already pretty much are ****s, as that word is used today. They're the SS, eagle-emblazoned elite troops of a fascist regime.

Anyway, if this guy has painted swastikas all over his models then I can see why he might have been banned from using them there, though not why he'd be banned outright.

EDIT - I see why you wrote nasi now. Damn filter.

[wkz]

Thank you for commenting. Would you be willing to give an example of an offensive army? I found the above story from this fellow to be odd as in the same store, they play Axis & Allies and FOW, with a fair number of Axis/German players.

That's acceptable only because of the context: the setting is World War 2, and in world war 2 you just cannot escape the fact there's German people in there, and for the most part those Germans are controlled by a government/military that's heavily Na*i. Fighting Na*is in World War 2 wargames is alright in this case as it is part of the setting: they're the bad guys in the world setting. (They're in fact the primary antagonist fer goodness sake... well, at least of the WAR. We can discuss "causes of war" in another thread)

However, the 40k universe is HEAVILY disconnected from the current world. To bring in an army with themes connected to the current day will be to heavily clash with the fluff of that universe... ... and this clash of uniqueness will usually be seen as making a statement/declaring your love of something outright (after all, why give fluff the middle finger if you're not liking the theme?). For examples:

- a "General" Rhino (pic of the day a few days back) will automatically have the audience assume you love the show the Dukes of Hazard

- a friend of mine is generally accepted as being crazy about Starcraft simply because his Tyranid army is heavily converted that way (with Queens, Zerglings, Ultralisks and even Kerrigan in there)

- Slannesh rock bands, anyone? ... .... nah, that's fluffy. However, Ork Heavy Metal conversions will automatically make first impressions of the owner = a heavy metal fan...
etc...

And now think of someone who brings a Na*i-themed army into this context. "oh wow. this guy's making a statement/loves something... ... and his statement/preference is the Na*i Party?!??"

At least, the above is one way of seeing things.

[Brass Scorpion]

It's not a matter of taste, it's a matter of a complete lack of taste. I had this very conversation with one of my local store operators recently and he said he'd kick someone like that out as well. 40K is a fantasy game. It may be about a dark future, but it's supposed to be light fantasy fun for those engaging in it. Iconography of that kind has no place in it and you'd have to wonder what someone is flogging if they do their army up like that. Besides it is also incredibly insensitive, thoughtless and is for obvious reasons a good way to drive away potential new customers who come in the store. Some things are not to be taken lightly. Warhammer IS to be taken lightly, it's fantasy fun. I can think of several different motifs and bits of iconography that have no place on fantasy miniatures, but the example here is probably the most obvious. The lesson here for people who do things like that, assuming they don't have a hateful agenda and are just thoughtless, is don't be a callous idiot.

[s_harrington]

I wonder if any non Catholics get offended when I plop down my Codex: Grey Knights army all flying Inquisition banners, pennants, and iconography?

Seriously though; I would first look at the maturity level of the store before forcing non-standard thematic elements upon the general populace that visits it.

I know of a few stores in Northern California and Arkansas where showing up with the Rainbow Marines will likely get you tied to a tree, Deliverance style.

[Image]

A friend of mine at the FLGS told me about an individual who had what sounds to be an identical army. By the sounds of it, the individual I heard of created an army with the purpose of being offensive, not because of some martyred artistic value. Simply put, he just wanted to piss some people off.

If that kind of attitude matches the individual's in the OP, then I don't think a banning would be inappropriate, depending on how far it was taken. I expect a warning was issued first.

EDIT: To actually answer the question in the OP, yes I think it's possible to create an army that goes too far. This is a game that relies on visualization and creativity, but actually playing often occurs in very public places. For me, I think one that uses racist or sexist themes are ones that go too far. I recognize that the fluff enables some of that, but I certainly think you can tell when it goes too far.

[Hive Mind]

How was the army made to look like National Socialists though? If it was just swastikas, then you have to remember that the swastika has an existence completely independent of National Socialism. The (now defunct) Windsor Swastika hockey team, Hindu iconography and Native American iconography for example.

Swastika doesn't always mean National Socialist.

If the guy just did it to, in effect, 'troll' his LGS then fine, ban his army.