BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum
Page 1 of 28 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 278

Thread: 6th ed rumors

  1. #1
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sacramento area
    Posts
    9,681

    Default 6th ed rumors

    I found this on Heresy Online, source

    as told in privacy but can’t vouch for the accuracy. Corrected some spelling errors from icq conversation:
    >>I am really pissed! The recent shift in GW’s marketing strategy is only the beginning. The goal is to completely control every bit of information that is going out and make every advance sneak peek look like an accidental leak. Think of Apple and you know what they are trying to achieve. They simultaneously try to keep the internet crowd happy with some leaked bits here and there and the store crowded focused on the next release. Prepare for more of these infamous “you see one eighth of the miniature and should stand in awe” pictures.

    The restructured White Dwarf will be the only place for “official” news. The days when Games Days were a good source for exciting news are gone. No more seminars. Independent shop owners will get the info at the same time as the public. From autumn on product codes will be chiffres and retailers have to order bulk packages for new releases without knowing what is in it if they want to get the releases on the first day. If they want to buy the boxes individually they have to wait two weeks until GW releases the chiffres. Mail Orders won’t arrive on the day of release, they will be SENT on the day of release. So no more accidental early arrivals. If you want to buy a product on the day of release you have to go to a GW store or one of the shops that have bought the release package. There is no chance to get the products via an online store on time. The retail embargo for the southern hemisphere were initially planned for every single country, so no more exports from UK to continental Europa, but GW’s law division stopped this as it would have violated EU laws. So now they will introduce two boxes for every release with exactly the same content but different boxes. One is for the retail in a single country and comes at the standard wholesale price. The other box has all the necessary taxation and regulatory clearances for export. These boxes are virtually the same but GW is charging an extra fee for them. Online shops can choose to stop exports or accept a serious blow to their profit margins.

    We, the gamers, are sitting on the receiving end of this dishonest policy once more. We are treated like children and that is exactly the goal of these changes. So here are some of their plans, as long as the info is available, to spoil some of their surprises:

    * first 6th edition codexes, but release before or with rulebook, small release with single or two waves: Black Templars (1 waves: 2x plactic, 2x Finecast), Tau (1 wave: 3x plastic boxes, 4x Finecast), Necrons (2 waves)

    * first real 6th edition codex: Codex Chaos Legions, really big release in three waves, doesn’t invalidate Codex Chaos Space Marines which gets extensive White Dwarf update as Codex Renegade Space Marines

    * two starter sets, each with rules, dices, movement markers, mission booklet, one with Dark Angels and fitting scenery, the other with Black Legion and Chaos scenery. You can combine both to play the campaign or use one set alone to play a selection of dumbed down scenarios against every other force, first starter set that comes with a model for a well established special character

    * 6th edition is finished rulewise for some time now, the overall goal is to fix some of the long time problems of the game system. Expect a lot more fundamental improvements than last edition. The rules were even more ambitious at some stage of development, but didn’t get approved as they were too far away from the established rules. The main designer left company and his successors brought the rules back in line with the existing codexes. The rules are nonetheless a bigger step forward than from 4th to 5th. Changes are so big that the next edition relies partial on erratas to fix old codexes. Development relied heavily on feedback of veteran playtesters. You can see some results of this new approach by the way the FAQs were handled in the last months. All codexes since Codex Tyranids were written with the new rules in mind, especially the new mission and reserve structure.

    * The main design goals are: one book to rule them all, heroic characters, visceral combat, streamlined mechanism, cleaned up presentation and strategy before chance

    * strong narrative focus on Chaos, perspective shifting from the Empire to the struggle between free races and the Warp

    * the biggest rule changes:
    - similar ballistic to hit chart as wound chart: compare BS to target’s speed and unit type. BS 3 hits moving infantry on 4+, but lightning fast jetbikes on 6+ and stationary tank on 2+… HUGE
    - victory points are back, but with another twist: you get two victory points if an unit holds an objective for an entire game turn, if a scoring unit holds one, you get three and one if you destroy a squad leader or vehicle
    - before the game there is a bidding contest for the opportunity of the first turn, if you bid more strategic points you can go first, but the enemy can spent these points on stratagems as in Cities of Death: 22 generic stratagems – for example for one point you can decide on night fighting or place an automatic gun, for four you can shift your reserves, most expensive stratagems are at 12 points and are really drastic, every unspent point can be used once a game for a reroll
    - new turn sequence: prepare-movement-assault-shooting-consolidate
    new phase “consolidate” phase for random movements, jetpack movements, pursuits, morale checks/effects and resolving shooting reactions
    assault before shooting – big units are real roadblocks!<<

    *
    Avatar Image
    rideroftheerk · 1 day, 2 hours ago

    Some more examples for the development doctrines
    One rulebook for all:
    - flyer rules are incorporated in the main rules
    - narrative rule section that expands core rules: formations, super heavies, gaining experience
    - modular rules, core rules can easily be expanded by narratives rules or another expansion set

    Heroic characters:
    - independent characters more powerful, armour save and invulnerable save at the same time
    - squad leaders more important, no more 50% rallying threshold, unit can rally as long as squad leader lives
    - independent characters can snipe

    More visceral combat:
    - standard cover only 5+ now, Feel No Pain (1) only on 5+
    - slow slogging units very vulnerable
    - some weapon types are specialized in taking out specific unit types and are incredible good at doing this (sniper vs. infantry without armour), but on the other hand ordnance vs flyer isn’t going to do much

    streamlined:
    - no more random movement at all
    - 5 general types of psychic powers
    - wound allocation like 4th edition on unit basis, but attacker can chose every 5th wound to go to a single model (sniper weapon every second wound)
    - artillery is normal immobile vehicle squadron, crew has no other game purpose than to be a counter for rate of fire and attacks

    clean up of combusted rules:
    - there are tiers for most of the special rules. Instant Death (2) circumvents Eternal Warrior (1) for example. Feel No Pain (1) is 5+, Feel No Pain (2) is 4+ and Feel No Pain (3) is 3+. If no value is given, the special rule is tier 1.
    - no more difference between leadership test and morale test
    - terrain rules on a single page, true line of sight, non-vehicles models are ignored altogether, rules for special terrain like bunkers, ruins or deathworld mangroves in narrative rule section

    less randomness, more strategic options:
    - more elaborate reserve rules, can nominate turn of arrvial and has only small change to arrive earlier or later, or can intervene behind enemy lines, arrives randomly but can hinder enemy reserves, must be distributed evenly between turn two and three, later arrivals only randomly
    -no more random game length
    -no roll for first turn
    -deep striking units more than 18” from enemy away don’t scatter, but landing in 6” is much more dangerous
    - movement impairing effects from pinning weapons even if morale check is passed (if roll is above halved Ld), Fearless not immune to this, but only effected if rolled over full Ld
    - more reactions to shooting than going to the ground depending on unit type and special rules. bikes can evade (3+ cover as same as before, but cannot assault or shoot next turn), jump troops can fly high, units with Stealth can attempt to vanish, …

    I'm hesitant about a few of the details, like the bidding process for first turn and the more complex BS "to hit" chart, as both could easily get way too complicated to work well. But so long as those are simple enough, they're fine, and I like a lot of the other stuff.


    Edit: And I love the removal of random stuff. No random movement, no random game length, less random reserves, all of that is awesome. Anything that takes control away from the player and makes them rely on a single dice roll takes away from the skill of the game. Getting completely screwed over because the game ended turn 5 sucks.
    Last edited by DarkLink; 06-19-2011 at 01:03 PM.
    I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.

  2. #2

    Default

    I really don't like the BS chart rumor and hope it's not true. Aside from over complicating things really fast, it's going to cause a sudden explosion in all jetbike armies.

    The rest I rather like...except the bidding for first turn. It seems like people won't really want to bid to go first, because not doing so is alot better than doing so.
    The 4th Doctor has long scarf to protect him from hate.

  3. #3

    Default

    I'm not liking what I'm reading, I hope to the Emperor Himself that this is far from accurate!

  4. #4

    Default

    I'm taking all of this with a massive pinch of salt. GW is tightening up leaks yet we have detailed info on rule changes for 6th editon? Tyranids weren't released that long after the current rulebook, yet they already knew what the next rule set would be to enable them to make Tyranids compatible with it? Doesn't sound right to me.

  5. #5
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,315

    Default

    What BrokenWing said.

    'Cept I really like the idea of 'bidding' for first turn. That, combined with the stratagems, will add a whole new layer of strategy into the game, I think.

    One other thing I'm apprehensive about is the Deep Strike thing - my Blood Angels love DS'ing within 6" of units...and now that's going to be more dangerous for them than it already is? I hope not...

    The other thing that raises my eyebrow is Assault before Shooting - makes assault weapons a lot less appealing for armies that can hold their own in close combat...not sure I like the idea of being unable to use shotguns or storm bolters before charging into the fray.

  6. #6
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildeybeast View Post
    I'm taking all of this with a massive pinch of salt. GW is tightening up leaks yet we have detailed info on rule changes for 6th editon? Tyranids weren't released that long after the current rulebook, yet they already knew what the next rule set would be to enable them to make Tyranids compatible with it? Doesn't sound right to me.
    All codices -since- Tyranids were written with 6th in mind, the rumour says.

    I find it hard to believe that includes Tyranids, if random movement is going to be gone - where does that leave Hormagaunts? (they better get a FAQ/errata with any new rule set to set things right...)

  7. #7
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Aldershot, Hampshire, United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,154

    Default

    I do like the idea of heroic characters being a little more survivable and, well, heroic! Very big fan of cover being reduced to a 5+ save as well, and squad leaders being more than just an extra attack or point of leadership. Not such a big fan of a lot of the rest of it.

    Added complexity slows the game down, creates more confusion as players get things a little bit wrong. In a competitive environment, that will only lead to bad things and arguments. I'm a little confused about the change in turn sequence. It makes it a bit more like fantasy. Fantasy doesn't really having shooting like 40k does and I personnally like the difference. I don't want 40k to just be a sci-fi version of fantasy.

    I don't think I'm just trying to go against change for the sake of going against change. I really enjoyed the change from 3rd to 4th, and again to 5th, but those changes excited me when I heard the rumours. These just seem to dissappoint me. Still, early days yet. The truth will out eventually.
    Always thinking 2 projects ahead of anything I've yet to finish
    http://instinctuimperator.blogspot.co.uk/

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenWing View Post
    I really don't like the BS chart rumor and hope it's not true. Aside from over complicating things really fast, it's going to cause a sudden explosion in all jetbike armies.
    I actually hope this is true, since I play with a Saim Hann army, it'll be nice to have the fluff actually fitting the rules for once

    Generally, I hope this does become what 6th edition essentially is as it sounds like it will make the game better, I just hope its released sooner rather than later...

    http://saimhanneldar.blogspot.com/

  9. #9

    Default

    i do like the idea of those starter kits very much! and the saves rule is nice!, also with the new cover it means the end of cover loving guard :P


    im not soo keen on the consolidate phase ( my jetbikes and battlesuits like that and arnt going to share it :L)

    does sound good though!

    -fuzz
    visit my blog: www.fuzzbuket.blogspot.com I do cheap commsion work
    And COME TO BOLSCON UK and yell about my font!

  10. #10

    Default

    The restructured White Dwarf will be the only place for “official” news.
    Fine, if we get some proper previews at the back. Not interested if its going to stay as a piece of art and some cryptic boxout.
    The days when Games Days were a good source for exciting news are gone. No more seminars.
    Hooray, one less reason to go.
    Independent shop owners will get the info at the same time as the public etc...
    Fairly transparent attempt at driving people into official stores. Odds of success 10%Mail Orders won’t arrive on the day of release, they will be SENT on the day of release. So no more accidental early arrivals. If you want to buy a product on the day of release you have to go to a GW store or one of the shops that have bought the release package.
    One less reason to order things from the official GW site. If they think I'm going to make a special launch day trip to the store, keep dreaming.

    * first 6th edition codexes, but release before or with rulebook, small release with single or two waves: Black Templars (1 waves: 2x plactic, 2x Finecast), Tau (1 wave: 3x plastic boxes, 4x Finecast), Necrons (2 waves)
    BT and Tau only make sense if they also have new codices and they're running out of time to squeeze in three (plus sisters)
    * first real 6th edition codex: Codex Chaos Legions, really big release in three waves, doesn’t invalidate Codex Chaos Space Marines which gets extensive White Dwarf update as Codex Renegade Space Marines
    This I like the sound of, but don't expect many to stick with the old defunct codex unless it gets a serious WD buff.
    * two starter sets, each with rules, dices, movement markers, mission booklet, one with Dark Angels and fitting scenery, the other with Black Legion and Chaos scenery. You can combine both to play the campaign or use one set alone to play a selection of dumbed down scenarios against every other force, first starter set that comes with a model for a well established special character
    Not sure if I buy dark angels if the next SM codex is BT, unless this an attempt to retire the Dark Angels codex as a separate book. I like the idea of including a bit of scenery.
    * the biggest rule changes:
    - similar ballistic to hit chart as wound chart: compare BS to target’s speed and unit type. BS 3 hits moving infantry on 4+, but lightning fast jetbikes on 6+ and stationary tank on 2+… HUGE

    Might work, but its going to be a devil keeping track of what moved how far in the previous turn (simplified my a$$).Presumably jetbike cover saves would be lost to balance this out.
    - victory points are back, but with another twist: you get two victory points if an unit holds an objective for an entire game turn, if a scoring unit holds one, you get three and one if you destroy a squad leader or vehicle
    Again, going to be a pain to keep track of and hugely penalises armies such as daemons.
    - before the game there is a bidding contest for the opportunity of the first turn, if you bid more strategic points you can go first, but the enemy can spent these points on stratagems as in Cities of Death: 22 generic stratagems – for example for one point you can decide on night fighting or place an automatic gun, for four you can shift your reserves, most expensive stratagems are at 12 points and are really drastic, every unspent point can be used once a game for a reroll
    Interesting idea but I can see this being dropped by lots of players for simplicity or just bidding zero and planning for second turn. I like the idea of a store of rerolls though (that monolith just became even more unkillable). I wonder if seizing the initiative will remain (Vect cries a river) and if you can reroll it with one of teh stratagem points (Vect throws a party).
    - new turn sequence: prepare-movement-assault-shooting-consolidate
    new phase “consolidate” phase for random movements, jetpack movements, pursuits, morale checks/effects and resolving shooting reactions
    assault before shooting – big units are real roadblocks!<<

    Consolidate phase sounds sensible, assault before shooting is another huge change for some armies.
    Heroic characters:
    - independent characters more powerful, armour save and invulnerable save at the same time
    - squad leaders more important, no more 50% rallying threshold, unit can rally as long as squad leader lives
    - independent characters can snipe

    I like the loss of the rallying limit but armour AND invulnerable, really?

    More visceral combat:
    - standard cover only 5+ now, Feel No Pain (1) only on 5+
    - slow slogging units very vulnerable
    - some weapon types are specialized in taking out specific unit types and are incredible good at doing this (sniper vs. infantry without armour), but on the other hand ordnance vs flyer isn’t going to do much

    Less cover makes sense. weapon types matrix just adds more unnecessary complexity.
    streamlined:
    - no more random movement at all
    - 5 general types of psychic powers
    - wound allocation like 4th edition on unit basis, but attacker can chose every 5th wound to go to a single model (sniper weapon every second wound)
    - artillery is normal immobile vehicle squadron, crew has no other game purpose than to be a counter for rate of fire and attacks

    Running and fleet bites the dust, or will it be a predictable 3"?
    Won't miss loss of crew, but actual artillery (i.e. not tanks) is very rare.
    Wound allocation has gotten ridiculous in 5th but some units are going to be very expensive without it. Another nail in the Nob biker coffin.

    clean up of combusted rules:
    - there are tiers for most of the special rules. Instant Death (2) circumvents Eternal Warrior (1) for example. Feel No Pain (1) is 5+, Feel No Pain (2) is 4+ and Feel No Pain (3) is 3+. If no value is given, the special rule is tier 1.
    - no more difference between leadership test and morale test
    - terrain rules on a single page, true line of sight, non-vehicles models are ignored altogether, rules for special terrain like bunkers, ruins or deathworld mangroves in narrative rule section

    Eeesh, yet more to keep track of.
    less randomness, more strategic options:
    - more elaborate reserve rules, can nominate turn of arrvial and has only small change to arrive earlier or later, or can intervene behind enemy lines, arrives randomly but can hinder enemy reserves, must be distributed evenly between turn two and three, later arrivals only randomly
    -no more random game length
    -no roll for first turn

    Less randomness is good. I don't like that the end of game roll is 50 times more important than virtually any other cast of the dice
    -deep striking units more than 18” from enemy away don’t scatter, but landing in 6” is much more dangerous
    - movement impairing effects from pinning weapons even if morale check is passed (if roll is above halved Ld), Fearless not immune to this, but only effected if rolled over full Ld

    Good to see pinning making a come back
    - more reactions to shooting than going to the ground depending on unit type and special rules. bikes can evade (3+ cover as same as before, but cannot assault or shoot next turn), jump troops can fly high, units with Stealth can attempt to vanish, …
    Sounds OK but a 3+ cover save and 6 to hit for jetbikes seems a bit much.

    Overall sounds OK-ish.

    I don't know what GW think they are going to achieve with their new market other than annoying their customers.

    The new rules sound mostly plausible, although some seem to place too much emphasis on keeping track of things. A game where you have to keep writing things down or placing counters to remind you what each unit did in their turn is not 'streamlined'.

 

 
Page 1 of 28 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •