Do we actually need a 6th edition?

[BrokenWing]

I have 0 problems with Balance in 5th edition and a million problems with rule wording and rulebook organization.

[Mauglum.]

Hi all.
In the list of things wrong with the 40k rules.
Alot of people appear to list symptoms.

But very few seem to have identified the core problem.

WH40k has never had a rule set written specificaly for it!
(Andy Chambers re-boot for 4th ed ,was rejected by corperte managment .)
It has ALWAYS used WHFB game mechanics and a lot of 'patches-bodges.'

Which means the core rules cover very little of the gameplay.
And GW have to add USRs,Vehicle rules, and codex special rules to cover the gamepaly.

So the devs have to work on '4 sets of rules' , that may or may not cause synergistic issues with , or cause limited obsilesance with other rules.

This slows down the process of development and realeases .

Not to mention the amount of extra difficulty caused when trying to ballance things to stuff that has not been developed yet!

Other rule sets that use more apropriate game mechannics/resolution methods , seem to be able to relase stuff much quicker and with provable levels of balance.

Becuase the core rules cover everything, its much easier to develop and balance the game , and its armies.

Therfore a complete re-write with the current gameplay in mind would yeild the best results for all concerned IMO.

[BuFFo]

If 6th edition changes the game as much as 3rd did, and we would all get an army book reboot, I would be all for that.

Other than that, 5th edition is pretty decent. Just fix imperial vehicles, and 5th edition would be perfect.

[Mauglum.]

Buffo.
I agree. 5th ed has taken the 3rd ed rule set about as far as it can go.(Barring a few MINOR tweeks here and there.)

A complete re-write would allow the devs to cover all the current gameplay in a much more straighforward way. (Everything in the rules book of about 30 to 40 pages maximum.)
Which would allow them to revisit and realase the new Codexes alot quicker.

[Grenadier]

I could go on all day complaining about the rulebook or a particular codex. We all have our gripes with them.

Games Workshop in recent years has steadily been losing my love. It seems to me the whole thing now is about profit more than it is a quality game. And I think its having an affect on the game's quality. Everyone has "newest army fever." Everyone wants Space Marines. It's all about the flash and not the substance.

As far as rulebooks go I begrudgingly liked 4th edition but I'm not fan of 5th edition except that it makes vehicles more survivable. I have other gripes as well but won't go into it.

Here's something I would love to see happen:

GW adopts the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mantra. Instead of creating an all new rulebook with radical changes just continue streamlining the rules. Simplify them. And instead of implementing major changes to a rule book go with more stuff like expansions such as Apocalypse or Planetstrike. Keep the core rule system the same but streamline it. Address the ambiguities. And then if any GW guy has some big idea instead of making a new rule book make an expansion. Treat these as alternative ways to play the game.

Also:

Make the codexes and rulebooks something you can download. Even better: make it so you can have it all in a single program. Codexes and the rulebook. This way you can download the rulebook in the form of a computer program. Need to look something up? The program can let you use a search bar and your result comes as a pop up. Also, within the program players could opt to download whatever codex they want into it. GW can charge for the downloadable codex. And maybe make a feature so you can do your army list within the program electronically, saving you many tedious hours of writing crap down and punching in points on a calculator. You could simply click on a unit, number of men in the unit, wargear, upgrades etc. Everything from the rulebook, codex, updates, even the army list will be electronic and interactive. Truly streamlining the game.

But best of all: the rulebook program can receive updates. Which will automatically plug in as need be. No more looking for the latest list of corrections or FAQs. Even these could be added to the program. As long as you have the program and an internet connection you will be good to go.

But wait, what about during the game? Well, for players who have an Ipad maybe they can make an app for that.

[Mauglum.]

Grenadier.
You do realise the real problem is because GW plc ..'.. just continue streamlining the rules'.

They try to re- write the rules to make them easier to explain.
But in doing so write the rules in an exclusive way.(Eg rules for specific types of models, rather than include ALL unit types.)
So they need to write MORE rules to cover the elements excluded by the re-writing of the new rules.

Eg'
Everything has a Movment value .The model may move up to this value in inches during the movment phase.
(Models may move up to twice this amount , but may not shoot in the shooting phase.)
Difficult terrain halves movement values,(rounding up.)
Verry difficult terrain quaters movment values ,( rounding up.)

This has been 'simplified' to;-
Everything moves 6".(Apart from the things that dont!)
Models moving through difficult terrain move the highest D6 valuel of 2 D6 rolled in inches.(Or pick highest from 1/3D6)
Dangerous terrain kills the model on the roll of 1.(Or it doesnt sometimes!)

And now needs the following EXTRA rules to cover the exluded features.
USRs.
Fleet.
Move through cover.
Skilled rider.
Slow and purposefull
Turbo boosters.

Vehilce rules.
Walker.
Tank.
Skimmer.
Fast.
Combat speed /Crusing speed

This doesnt include the ever changing Codex special rules

Writing a more well defined concise and intuitive rule set than the current 40k is SO easy to do.
Every other games company seem to have managed it!

Why are some people so against a new rule set?

[Chuck777]

I think every edition, no matter how good, has a certain amount of life held within it. I'd rather look back and remember the great times I had with an innovative and cool system, rather than look back and remember the last grueling whimpers of a desiccated and obtuse husk of an outdated rule system. Better we end it early I say.

Bring on 6th edition and its massive overhaul, I'm ready!

[CAPTAIN SPAGNOULO]

Do we need a 6th? No,not right now,considering about 35% of players haven't got to play 5th with a relevant codex yet.Will we have it forced on us anyway?No doubt.
Want to know how 6th will be different from 5th,go to your FLGS & run your finger across the boxes,the ones with the most dust will tell you all you need to know.

[HsojVvad]

Why do we need everyone updated to the 5th edtion codex? Where is it written that all codicies has to have an edtion with the current rules set?

The way people are talking about, since it's only small tweaks most people want, we should be able to play with 3rd edtion codicies for 6th edtion. If anything an Errat is all is needed to update the codex. That is the way it really should be done.

Seeing how that was done for Fantasy, it might happen for 40K to seeing how we are getting alot of FAQ updates now more than ever.

The only constant that is ever given, is that Space Marines will always have a new codex for every new rules edtion. That is just to make money, but is not really needed. So hopefully now, if 6th edtion comes out, there will be an Errata/FAQ for all codicies to be updated with the new rule set now.

[CAPTAIN SPAGNOULO]

Why do we need everyone updated to the 5th edtion codex? For the same reason the seal team didn't storm Bin Ladins' compound armed with muzzle loaders or why you don't go into an auto parts store & buy a 78 transmission for your 09 mustang.The fundamental structure has changed,a codex written when characters,monsterous creatures, & elites ruled the battlefield isn't going to have much to stop an 8 razorback mech army of today that wasn't even imagined then.But I don't think thats what people are truely upset about,I think its that GW went out of its way to give people the impression that all things were going to be made current,some time would pass, & allow them to see the game with all its moving parts & then develop a new edition.Its like saying we're going to rebuild a bigger,better poker game & then use a 38 card deck & a hand full of Uno cards to develop it.That coupled with the fact 40k has been around for 20 something years & has yet to put one coherent edition together is down right bizarre.