Assault Madness

[Grenadier]

Let it be known I despise the assault phase with a passion that rivals an Inquisitor's hatred of heretics. It's always confusing, always leads to disputes, and always is a pain the posterior.

Nonetheless this unpleasant phase occurs in every battle.

And on occasion something exceptionally confusing occurs.

Example:

My squad of Black Templars engage in an assault against an enemy squad. Doesn't matter which side initiates said assault.

The assault ends with units still locked in assault.

If the assault continues into my opponent's turn he sometimes brings in another squad to lend his squad a hand.

But always after fighting the previous assault. So, my squad is battling the original squad. Then an addition turn of it is fought. My guys do their attacks.

Then boom: here comes the new guys and they make their hits on my guys. And because my guys already did their attacks against their previous opponents they're not allowed to strike the guys who just opportunistically jumped in. So it's essentially a free round of hits on my men who don't get to fight back.

Is this right?!?

Are you actually allowed to linger by with a squad not in the combat and then, after your opponent makes his attacks jump into it, gaining the charge bonus, and wail on the enemy and he not be able to strike back against the reinforcements because his attacks were spent on the guys he's already fighting?

Or is it consider an new assault despite it being reinforcements coming into an existing one? Can my guys then fight back against the new comers? Or do they simply suffer a round of hits they cannot answer? And if so does this mean their original target gains a new set of attacks?

See why this hand to hand nonsense maddens me? It seems some players can exploit an opportunity in an unfair way.

How do you handle these scenarios? If I had my way you wouldn't be allowed to bring a new squad in to an existing fight and gain free attacks without your opponent being able to strike back. If your intent is to reinforce a squad engaged in an existing attack the new squad should have to move into that close combat before anyone makes any fights. Not fight it first with the one and then jump in with the other.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I'm pretty sure that all assault moves need to be declared before moving on to calculating the hits, and so your opponent couldn't send additional squads into the combat which had already been resolved that player turn. I don't have my rulebook with me, so I can't give you the exact page number.

[scrap square]

I'm pretty sure that all assault moves need to be declared before moving on to calculating the hits, and so your opponent couldn't send additional squads into the combat which had already been resolved that player turn. I don't have my rulebook with me, so I can't give you the exact page number.

True, you then choose where your attacks go

[Commander Vimes]

Whoever is doing that is playing it entirely wrong. At the start of the assault phase all units that are going to assault are moved into assault. Only after all units have been moved into combat does anyone attack. Whoever's turn it is picks the order that the close combats are resolved.

So if you have two units that are locked in combat, and another unit charges in what should happen is this:

Assaulting player moves in trying to base as many of his models with yours as he can with his movement.

Models attack in initiative order. Models in the the assaulted unit can choose to attack any enemy unit they are in base to base with. If they aren't in base to base, then they can pick any unit that another model from their unit within 2" is in base to base with.

All units from the losing side check morale.

So when you are fighting two units at once, you can split your attacks between them.

[wkz]

My expression when reading the above:
...
...
...
o.0
=,=; Ohhhhhh boy...

And no, the sequence you said is very, very, VERY wrong.


The big mistake here is this: The steps provided in the very start of the assault phase chapter (1. declare charges, 2. move charging units, 3. pile-in, 4. to-hit/to-wound, etc... ...) refers to the ALL the units on the ENTIRE 6 by 4 table, and is resolved for ALL the units involved before moving on to the next step.

By the time you start rolling dice for a unit's attacks, it means all the units should have resolved their earlier steps, which means all the units who should have charged, would have charged.

When you reached the resolution of an assault (all close combat attacks struck), there is absolutely no way another unit can pop out of nowhere, say "SURPRISE BUTTSE*!!" and proceed to attack you.

This is not a matter of your guys having no more CC attacks against him, but rather the fact that if he did not charge earlier there is NO WAY he should be in close combat now, and NO WAY he can start a close combat charge now.

Otherwise, you might as well declare your vehicle's side Heavy Bolters shooting the passengers of a destroyed Rhino after destroying said Rhino using the same vehicle's Lascannon turret. 'tis the same timing thing.

...
Just in case you don't know: Resolve all weapons' damage first, THEN perform the damage... by the time the passengers spill out of the wrecked Rhino (or: preforming the damage), the heavy bolters would have finished firing, and cannot fire again.



Again, to re-clarify what Commander Vimes had said so as to make it clearer:

a. Declare charges. Declare it for EVERY unit who is about to charge. Then move charges. Move squad A in fully, THEN move squad B in fully, etc... Repeat until all the charges of all the declared units on the table have moved into base to base.

After step a. ... if a unit wants to charge, say "Tough luck. Wait for your next assault phase".

b. Now move pile-in for all units who are now newly engaged in close combat (read: not previously engaged in Close Combat).

c. Now Roll your to-hit, to-wound, etc... This is for ALL units: those engaged from the previous player turn? They strike now. Those newly engaged? They strike now.

And those units previously engaged, but having a new unit charge them? All 3 or more units engaged in the mass melee strikes now. And at this point your Black Templars can choose to smack the ever loving s*** out of the new guys who are foolish enough to enter close combat against them.

[sangrail777]

WOW, Grenadier your really getting screwed.
Short answer is to do yourself a favour and take "Commander vines" and "wkz" advice on the matter.
Long answer: Reread pages 33-42 in rule book
pay alot of attention to pages 33 and 34 to resolve your problem "might I also suggest haveing your opponent do the same" (he doesn't appear to know what he is doing)

[Tynskel]

Yeah.

I highly recommend:
READING THE RULES

[AngelsofDeath]

Swirling Melee, Tactics, Templars. These three things come to mind after reading this post. Like the others said, all assault attacks happen at the same time, it is called a "swirling melee". The only attacks that go first are due to initiative value of the model or cover from terrain or grenades.

Tactics comes into play big time cause over whelming a player in assualt is key at times. If one of your units is wrapped up in hand to hand it benefits you to get another unit over there if you can to add in some more attacks and end it. Even allowing one unit to get assaulted (bait unit) and then having another sweep in and wipe out that unit is a tactic to use. Just food for thought.....

Last but not least is Templars, I have seen some pretty decent army lists come out of the Templars book. I know that codex is old, but he mix of weapons and rules allows you to field a pretty decent hand to hand army. I guess it comes down to who you are playing and what rules your opponent may be exploiting.

I would do more then just read....I would study, it might surprise you and make your 40K experience a bit more enjoyable.

[Caldera02]

So your playing templars......and you don't like assault......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


OK on a serious note....what the guys stated above. Declare all your charges, move into contact, look to see who can swing at who...go through initiative steps, resolve combat. That easy.

[Grenadier]

Thanks for the clarification people!

Sadly, I don't have the rule book. I rely on my friend's rulebook. Problem is consistency. Neither of us can remember every single thing. And I trust in him not to be intentionally cheating. And so often in a battle things are being reread. I've noticed though on occasion we'll do one thing this way then in another game do it another way. I think we might have some interpretation issue. But be assured this nonsense won't happen anymore.

Now, another question:

It doesn't happen often but on occasion I'll be in a three way battle with my friend and his buddy.

The rules state you cannot shoot into hand to hand combat. But I've always interpreted this to mean "if you're men are in said combat." Nowhere does it say anything a player in a 3 or more battle can't shoot into a combat he's not involved in.

Your thoughts?

When I see them engaged in assault I see a nice juicy target to whammy. Is it allowed?