SoB WD codex 'leaked'

[wallweasels]

See, the point I was trying to make is that there is no such thing as a "behind enemy line" shock trooper. That's a commando. Using a commando "guns blazing like everyone else" is a misuse of that asset. "Guns blazing" is a storm\\shock trooper. In IG terms, it's the difference between a storm trooper, who is a highly trained, highly equipped soldier whose purpose and expertise is to conduct behind-the-lines actions, and a grenadier, who is an equally highly trained, highly equipped soldier whose purpose and expertise is to go in guns blazing. In general Imperial terms, if you upgrade a storm trooper, you get a space marine. If you upgrade a grenadier, you get a battle sister.

Well yeah and I know but I never meant behind enemy lines or anything. But, even by the wiki article you gave, they "lead the attack". Doesn't hugely define how far ahead But yeah "scouts" or anything with the scout rule kind of has that concept. Stormtroopers (the actual unit) are more "drop troop" kinda now with their deep strike options or infiltrate (which is that they dropped in before hand :x). But that actually kind of makes them more IG commandos now. Dropping in before the battle to do something important or ambush the enemy? Well since that doesn't really "occur" in 40k because obviously theres no pre-battle stuff that goes on so the only way to "Ambush" is to just be there already on the board before the game starts. But...we don't really have anything for that or even in fluff. Dominions, just now by the recent fluff-entry, are more sided to "shock-troop" in that they lead the attack ahead of the main force but not much more than that.

Oh, totally agreed with that. What I think celestians should be (and never have been) is a unit that is or can get in your face and mow you down like dominions can, and unlike dominions can follow through and finish you off at the edge of a sarissa.

Indeed! Celestians have always been fairly depressing. in 3rd edition they at least were BS4 (compared to the rest of the sisters were BS3) so there was an obvious reason why celestians were better.

I did like the resilience that Spirit of the Martyr gave, I just didn't like the feel of doing it through magical invulnerable power armor. I agree that sisters can, will, and do sacrifice themselves to protect others, and I think that's a hugely important part of their fluff, flavor, even their moral center. But when I think of how sisters defend things, I don't think it would look "defensive" in the way most people think of that. Like any highly trained soldier, I'm sure if you put sisters behind a wall and said "defend these battlements" they would make a good show of it. But I also think their very strong preference would be to defend by attacking.

Well yeah it did come off as magical-armor of protection but the "in game" method is always going to seem much more weird than the fluff reason/versions. Like snipers on necrons being explained that its like emp-rounds or some crap or poison weapons on necrons too. Regardless I always kind of liked the chapter approved "4+ and they didnt get hurt at all/shrugged it off/whatever" which was done after failed saves. It was more like FNP since you couldn't use it on instant death attacks or power weapons. Obviously that served as wasted different function but you should get my point. It doesn't have to be an invunerable because it bounced off their armor but more that somehow...it didn't happen. 40ks rolling system isn't as clear as to what happens sometimes. I hit with a lascannon and you DIDNT die? how...did I clip your toe or something? I guess in that you just have to say you missed anyway. In game effects usually have to marry fluff with playability and just having random troops randomly live at random times from praying they did before the battle...doesn't seem like that would play out to well on the table.

[edit]Random thought: You could say its like fate points in Lotr. Some people just aren't...fated to die yet. Emperor was like "no wai~!"

[Verilance]

I don't know if it is fluffy or not but I would really like a Sisters of Battle Bike Squad...



...then again perhaps driving a motorcycle while operating a flame thrower could be hazardous

[murrburger]

I'd say the less like Marines they are, the better; no bikes.

I've wanted to collect Sisters for a long time, but I'm probably going to wait until they have the new models out.

[wallweasels]

I'd say the less like Marines they are, the better; no bikes.

I've wanted to collect Sisters for a long time, but I'm probably going to wait until they have the new models out.

Although bikes would be cool I do agree. Way to space marineish. Maybe I think they are cool since I just want some T4 sisters

Anyway...I always kind of liked the idea of sisters picking up the "job" of crusaders. Fireborn (audiobook) pretty heavily describes about 4 (2 guarding the main door, 2 guarding inner) crusaders who were female, had many fleur-de-lys and were in power armor >_> It go in with the idea of having a "faithful" unit thats a tarpit and go with the martyr idea. Well...I think the goal is that they don't die, but more that they protect others

Seriously though I don't blame GW to much for not making any new "sister" units. After having tried to create my own fandex (it was pretty snazzy in my opinion :x) I had a very hard time coming up with new units. I dont' think I ever came down with a solid idea I stuck with. The "shield" sister was probably the more successful, but I had a hard time placing it on in a slot (i had assumed elite). Anyway, seriously its really hard to put something that is a sister, in this list. You got devastators, special weapon troops, jump packer, longbeards, melee unit, HQ unit. Anyway that is slightly off topic >_>

My point is more that it should be addressed one way or another preferably. As it is we have to assume there could be tens of thousands or more of Orders Minoris, but that doesn't help an army itself explain how it got its numbers back.

missed you had this post earlier...but yes. My one complaint about sisters is how "clear" the connection between conventions and differento rders are. ALL orders basically run the same, although that isn't true at the sametime. There are convents and orders that have vows of silence...so clearly sisters can vary per order to order. Does the Order of our Martyred Lady not like, lets say, Order of the Argent Shroud? Is it just more of a namesake than really different "chapters"? Apart from the two different "head planets" which haven't been clearly defined as to how they seperate. But, as I mention, I think all of this is mostly due to the fact that we haven't had a "main leader" aka the Abbess in several hundred years.

Regardless Sisters direly need just more fluff in general and be less of an excuse in books from authors who don't have sisters has the main army involved. Need more definition on what orders do differently, I would love to hear that the Argent Shroud might prefer a more "heavy" approach and use more Retributors. As far as I dont want ot be like marines and have "chapter codexs" or anything, but the 3rd/4th edition space marine "create a chapter" gave a lot of depth and good knowledge into how marine chapters can vary while not being terribly "radical" like space wolves or black templar and such. Although I doubt GW would ever do that kind of thing again...having "space marine-esque" special characters that give specific traits to the army would work too. If orders really aren't all that different, then it may just be "best" to have us under one banner regardless...which we kind of are but not really. Names of convent groups and orders can stay different aslong as they all identify together without prejudice. However the relationship between orders, as I have mentioned, is not clearly defined so far.

[Melissia]

Why are people expecting the wargear section to have game breaking wargear?

People keep saying "wait for wargear wait for wargear" ... but ... why? I know what to expect from wargear, and none of it is that exciting. There's no new models, no new units, etc, so we aren't going to see any exciting new wargear. They aren't going to let us have a flamer on every battle sister like certain people suggest, either. . They're also unlikely to let retributors have four heavy flamers, for that matter, and even if they could why would you want to take them over exorcists anyway?

[Lancel]

Why are people expecting the wargear section to have game breaking wargear?

People keep saying "wait for wargear wait for wargear" ... but ... why? I know what to expect from wargear, and none of it is that exciting. There's no new models, no new units, etc, so we aren't going to see any exciting new wargear. They aren't going to let us have a flamer on every battle sister like certain people suggest, either. . They're also unlikely to let retributors have four heavy flamers, for that matter, and even if they could why would you want to take them over exorcists anyway?

Probably because they nerfed it. << (rampant hearsay) Honestly I see few ways the wargear can truly fix this. It's not impossible, but highly unlikely. Even if there is good wargear, I have a feeling the general reaction to the BoSL in the last edition will ensure they're quite expensive to deter the players from taking them on all squads (despite it probably being needed). And aside from that, has the wargear ever actually been the be-all-end-all of a codex? I can't think of one, it's always more been about the models, their stat line and special rules, and how much they cost, with a few exceptions like the BoSL.

I don't know who came up with the Every Sister with a Flamer theory, but that is kinda ridiculous yeah. All those templates would probably just bog down the game.

I'm finding the people asking if anyone has actually tries the rules out are becoming a pet peeve of mine in this case, since, you know, we can't try the codex out yet. The answer is obvious.

[Zahariel]

I'm hoping someone was having a big troll day and didn't post all the pages from WD and tomorrow i'll open it up and be happy SoB player instead of sad /f*%#ed off SoB player. In response to the people saying wait for the miraculous amazing wargear that's going to make this "codex" awesome! Why should the wargear make the codex an enjoyable, balanced and competitive one? Is it only the wargear sections that make the SW,BA, DE IG etc enjoyable, varied and competitive, I doubt it.

I hoped that GW would make more of an effort but from what we've seen (MM Sisters are now camoflaged H.Bolter sisters) I don't know why I bothered getting a tiny bit excited for this.

[jtheodorec]

I hoped that GW would make more of an effort but from what we've seen (MM Sisters are now camoflaged H.Bolter sisters) I don't know why I bothered getting a tiny bit excited for this.

The sad thing is, now that I've seen how thoroughly underwhelming the fluff section is compared to what's gone before (keeping in mind that you're not going to be able to cover the Sororitas/Ecclesiarchy fluff in just four pages; that being said, Robin and Matt, you *could* have made room for Dominica's quote when she killed Vandire), I can't really see how it's going to inspire those who were considering starting a Sister's army, either.

Novitiates, do yourselves a favor and get a hold of WD #292 and read the "Liber Sororitas" article.

[wallweasels]

Why are people expecting the wargear section to have game breaking wargear?

People keep saying "wait for wargear wait for wargear" ... but ... why? I know what to expect from wargear, and none of it is that exciting. There's no new models, no new units, etc, so we aren't going to see any exciting new wargear. They aren't going to let us have a flamer on every battle sister like certain people suggest, either. . They're also unlikely to let retributors have four heavy flamers, for that matter, and even if they could why would you want to take them over exorcists anyway?

Well the 4x heavy flamer on Rets is based on the fact that the page shows "retributor with heavy flamer". Since we also had that option before C:WH (but was taken away in C:WH) that also increases peoples chances.
Regardless Yes...I dont think wargear is going to change as much as points costs could. But I am also not one of the people who expects a massive points drop either. People really gravely under-estimate how badly written this is so far Yet they, somehow, expect godly things in the next half.

[Fibonacci]

... Why wouldn't we bring shooting in to the assault? How well a unit can shoot in the turn before it charges is part of its charging prowess.

I was showing that you caused more unsaved wounds with DG and rapid fire bolters than with any form of charging you had pointed out. Over 25% more unsaved wounds caused and no wounds taken. It is in the SoB players best interest to rapid fire rather than fire once and charge in all cases.

So ... when you say "Sisters are not assault troops," what do you mean?

I mean when Sisters of Battle are in close combat, they die. If you are assaulting with anything other than IC or saraphim, you are going to lose.