SoB WD codex 'leaked'

[Lordgimpet]

hmmm after reading the next WD all i can do is sigh, however I am willing to give it untill the next issue with the points and details before i got looking for blood, I just hope in the meantime then fix the dam typos
such as Arco flagellants in sisters army are weaker (S4 instead S5) but are good with guns (BS3 instead of BS1) compared to the GK versions WTF.. and minor things like a pic of a sister with a multi melta but stated as a Heavy bolter. This sloppy work sums up the whole release.

That said though we only have half of the picture, though not a good one and I cross fingers for wargear that extends /increases faith pool, holy bolts ammo, +2 int polearms... hah haa and anti psy etc.

I personaly feel this is the stopgap to fill as a result that the necrons were delayed for some reason and this was used to fill the void untill the real dex shows up.. Untill then I will go and sit in the corner with my eldar dex held close crying softly :P

[Nabterayl]

I hear what you're saying about making the army distinctive, Lerra, but I think they could have done that in other ways. A Sisters army that relied primarily on cheap, powerfully equipped infantry would still be distinctive in my mind. I'm not saying that acts of faith should go away, and I'm not saying what we're getting is what I would have liked to see, but I don't think faith is the only way to make battle sisters distinct. Neither IG nor space marines have cheap well-equipped infantry, after all. Space marines still run 15 points or more per model, and carapace vets are 10 points per model without high quality equipment.

[silashand]

The joke is Cruddace seems like putting Heavy 20 in all his books. XD 1st Gaurd, then nids.

XP

I know. My response was because Mr. Ward likes to take innocuous rules and run them so far over the top that they sprout wings...

I hear what you're saying about making the army distinctive, Lerra, but I think they could have done that in other ways. A Sisters army that relied primarily on cheap, powerfully equipped infantry would still be distinctive in my mind.

While that may be true, for those of us that have played Sisters for some time (15 years for me) it is a radical diversion from the established background and fluff. Before Acts of Faith we had Sacred Rites. Sisters have also always had some invulnerability to psychic powers. Both of these are IMO integral to the character of the army. Making them less of a focus means the Sisterhood becomes less the gleaming scions of purity in the Imperium and more just Guard with good armour and fewer toys. There is no reason why they cannot keep both those iconic attributes and still make them unique and interesting to play.

Cheers, Gary

[Nabterayl]

While that may be true, for those of us that have played Sisters for some time (15 years for me) it is a radical diversion from the established background and fluff. Before Acts of Faith we had Sacred Rites. Sisters have also always had some invulnerability to psychic powers. Both of these are IMO integral to the character of the army. Making them less of a focus means the Sisterhood becomes less the gleaming scions of purity in the Imperium and more just Guard with good armour and fewer toys. There is no reason why they cannot keep both those iconic attributes and still make them unique and interesting to play.

Cheers, Gary

Well, I don't disagree with any of those things (and I particularly forgot to mention psychic defenses in my last post). But the impression I get from a lot of comments is that sisters shouldn't be competitive without slinging miracles, which I don't think is true to the background. I think what the background establishes is that they should have miracles, and they should have pervasive psychic defenses, but those should be a supplement to rather than the source of their combat power.

[wallweasels]

Well, I don't disagree with any of those things (and I particularly forgot to mention psychic defenses in my last post). But the impression I get from a lot of comments is that sisters shouldn't be competitive without slinging miracles, which I don't think is true to the background. I think what the background establishes is that they should have miracles, and they should have pervasive psychic defenses, but those should be a supplement to rather than the source of their combat power.

Well the problem with the fluff is that despite boasting all this stuff it -never- happens in their battles.
The net result? Do you know how many sister battles end in defeat? the list well sided towards loses than wins and that is ones OUR CODEX TELLS US. Usually your codex tells you all the wins and maybe a few "dramatic" losses. Nope...sisters just lose a lot of sisters to do anything. Now. in our defense, alot of these situations are pretty damned grim...entire world being infested by a hive fleet? What are some ground force sisters going to do to stop that? :X Hell even marines end up just exterminatinus the planet. :|

Faith in 40k is very strong, people have literally banished daemons purely by brandishing an icon of faith (like the imperial "I" or other symbols) and literally blindly believing against the daemon and banished it. Faith is powerful in 40k but it very hard to write into a battle format. It would be like writing a "cheat" button in any situation. Its as cheesy as just when your characters about to die his buddy finally comes in to save the day. Yet it happens EVERYTIME you have a conflict.

I personally think faith should be an incredibly important part of the army to the point that playing without it means you lose. Sure, it shouldn't do everything for you, but using faith properly and in the right situations (however limited amounts you can use it), creates a unique tactic to the army. Just having "minor" bonuses from faith is not important at all. It just creates boring mechanics and generally "meh" rules that most armies have for free on their troops. Which, effectively, is exactly what this WD/PDF will/has do(ne)

[Melissia]

Neither IG nor space marines have cheap well-equipped infantry, after all. Space marines still run 15 points or more per model, and carapace vets are 10 points per model without high quality equipment.

Space Marines are VERY damned cheap for what you get. Especially Space Wolves.

[wallweasels]

Space Marines are VERY damned cheap for what you get. Especially Space Wolves.

Honestly I always look at chaos space marines for the "bang for your buck". For 15 points you got CCW, BP, Bolter, base reroll morale tests on a 9/10 and several weapon options. Optional banners allowed extra choices but not always optimal. They got the CCW/BP/Bolter before it was "cool" Not saying the codex didn't have problems, but when people like to compare unit costs they tend to never mention CSMs.

Not directly talking to you Mellissia: Besides, direct point to point comparrisions are never a good thing. People always forget that usually troops cost reflect how the entire army functions. 40k rarely results in vacuum comparisons.

[jtheodorec]

So.... how would everyone feel if sisters had access to Null Maidens as an elite choice, similar to the Sanguianry Priest. You can take....1-5 per elite choice, and split them up into units. They'd grant a 6" shrouded bubble, making them immune to Psychic attacks/effects, and would grant a cover save even in open ground. They'd also be an IC...making your base sisters unit Act of Faith roll a 3+ if you include one, potentially a 2+ if you take a casualty.

Fluff-wise, here's the problem with that: the Sisters of Silence vanished with Russ in the Warp at the end of HH, as I understand it. Since then, those females with strong "pariah" gene powers tend to get singled out for culexus temple or into organizations like Eisenhorn's Distaff - if they're lucky. The Sisters would be the first to put them on the Black Ships rather than have them serve alongside them. Celestian Miriya in Faith and Fire talks about her time as a warden on a Black Ship; htere are other mentions of Battle Sisters on Black Ships in other books.

[Nabterayl]

Space Marines are VERY damned cheap for what you get. Especially Space Wolves.

I agree. But a 1500-point army of 60 marines is still considered a lot of marines. If I had my druthers, 60 battle sisters at 1500 points would not be considered a lot.

[eldargal]

Everything starts to make sense: