SoB WD codex 'leaked'

[Nabterayl]

10 elite Cel vs 10 tac SM:

Celestines get 2 attacks, plus one for pistol and CCW. 30 attacks.
WS 4 vs WS4 so 15 hits.
S 3 vs T 4 so wounds on 5+ for an average of 5 wounds.
3+ armor save means 1.6 average unsaved wounds.

SM get 1 attack pluse one for pistol and CCW. 20 attacks.
WS 4 vs WS 4 so 10 hits.
S 4 vs T3 so wounds on a 3+ for an average of 6.66 wounds.
3+ armore save means 2.22 average wounds.

Elite vs the most basic troop. Celestines take about 39% more casualties. If you want to compair charges it gets worse. A basic SM causes 56% more damage than the elite Celestines. And this is with the 2 attacks the Celestines get in the WD codex.

What's the chance that a Celistine model will cost about 60% of a basic SM?

What I meant was that command squad celestians, unlike even veteran space marines, can fire their boltguns even while charging. Flavor-wise, that's exactly the sort of thing I wanted to see. But let me re-do your math, because you seem to be assuming everybody gets pistols and CCWs, which Celestians only might and tactical marines definitely don't.

Tactical marines get 1 attack, plus 0 for a pistol and no CCW. 10 attacks. WS4 vs. WS4 yields 5 hits. S4 vs. T3 yields 3 1/3 wounds. 3+ armor save means 1.1 unsaved wounds.

Celestians get 2 attacks base, plus (let's assume) 0 for pistol and no CCW. 20 attacks. WS4 vs. WS4 yields 10 hits. If you're using regular celestians, S4 vs. T4 yields 5 wounds. 3+ armor save means 1.7 unsaved wounds.

If you're using command celestians, you're working S3 vs. T4 for 3.3 wounds, and 1.1 unsaved wounds. But you've also got an extra S4 shot before charging, which is an additional 0.15 unsaved wounds per boltgun in the squad, so you're only 4 boltguns away from breaking even.

Looking pretty decent to me. My math is relying on the Acts of Faith, but I would argue that it should. Sisters without faith should be inferior to space marines. Sisters with faith should be slightly superior.

[GrenAcid]

Looking pretty decent to me. My math is relying on the Acts of Faith, but I would argue that it should. Sisters without faith should be inferior to space marines. Sisters with faith should be slightly superior.

I like!

[Melissia]

Celestians get 2 attacks base, plus (let's assume) 0 for pistol and no CCW. 20 attacks.

18. Celestians are I3 and they took an unsaved wound. They cannot use Acts of faith on the opponent's turn (no I4 or S4 upon receiving a charge, or any other benefits), so keep that in mind as well.

[wittdooley]

And I don't really find it hard to be civil so much as I have no desire to be civil to the people who continually argue that Sisters are MEQ despite all logic and reason. My opinion of them is lower than my opinion of the turd my cat laid on the carpet this morning.

I understand that sisters having a 3+ does not make them MEQ. I understand that they're more akin to IG Equivalent.

With the null maidens I was questioning whether or not that would make footslogging sisters a viable option. Perhaps I overestimate how much of a benefit being unable to be targeted by psychic attacks actually is, or how scary 40 bolter rounds could be from a full squad of 20 sisters.

[Melissia]

Ahem:

....i wasn't responding to you in specific.

....i wasn't responding to you in specific.

....i wasn't responding to you in specific.

[wittdooley]

Right right, my bad.

In previous sisters army, with the present codex, do people tend to run sisters in armour or without?

[wallweasels]

Right right, my bad.

In previous sisters army, with the present codex, do people tend to run sisters in armour or without?

Well because the niche list is taking as many immolators as possible it is mostly armored. If you dont do immy spam it is rhino spam anyway. Foot sisters are not incredibly popular, while I can say in some situations a few foot squads are not bad when mixed in an army of other rhinos. However the issue with having only a few rhinos is mostly the sheer amount of anti-tank most modern armies have. 2x twinlinked autocannons tend to swiss-cheese rhinos for instance

I understand that sisters having a 3+ does not make them MEQ. I understand that they're more akin to IG Equivalent.

With the null maidens I was questioning whether or not that would make footslogging sisters a viable option. Perhaps I overestimate how much of a benefit being unable to be targeted by psychic attacks actually is, or how scary 40 bolter rounds could be from a full squad of 20 sisters.

Well null to psychic powers is great when it isn't just one troop. However that doesn't stop people using powers on themselves (hammerhand for instance). Plus since only a few units of the army would be null-maidens then they'd just psyker-rape the ones who weren't and kill the rest with the normal forces. It would be an improvement, sure, but not as much as you'd think.

Regardless: 20 sisters shooting 40 times is really not that impressive. it requires being, usually, within 8~10 inchs of the enemy just to fit that many bolters in, so commonyl you end up having a few sisters our of range even when you are within 12 inchs (and if you are really close together you are just template bait :|). Regardless of that, bolters are not dramatically impressive.
40 bolter shots roughly kills 4.4 marines. With "reroll 1s" ability in the new rules it ends up being 6.48 die and with divine guidance it is 7.40 die. Its a loss of effectiveness from the current and current 20 man blobs aren't used commonly at all. Not because they are to expensive, just because the yare to slow to keep up with "modern" 40ks (aka 5th editions) mech-spam

[Fibonacci]

Looking pretty decent to me. My math is relying on the Acts of Faith, but I would argue that it should. Sisters without faith should be inferior to space marines. Sisters with faith should be slightly superior.

So ... the best SoB available has to pass a faith check to reach those numbers which means AT BEST they will meet the WORST SM troop 83% of the time. Since they can not use AoF on the oponent's turn that makes them able to achieve those numbers 42% of the time. And this makes them "about even?"

An elite, CC orriented unit has a 42% chance of taking out a equal sized "you can't get any lower than this" SM squad and this makes the armies compairable? How about we flip that? Try running the numbers for a group of 10 longfangs vs a basic SoB troop.

[Fibonacci]

Right right, my bad.

In previous sisters army, with the present codex, do people tend to run sisters in armour or without?

They tend to run at I4 with AP1 bolters and a 3++ invulnerable save. Why do you ask?

[Verilance]

got my copy of WD in my local store today, skimmed it over

love the VC stuff

The Sister's fluff is fluffy enough they certainly didn't underpower their history