SoB WD codex 'leaked'

[silashand]

I really don't want my Sisters to die by the score like Orks and Guard.

Same here.

[wittdooley]

Same here.

Doesn't their power armor ensure that they don't?

[chicop76]

Wonderful point. The rules may look crappy now, but if you can take 6 squads of troop Sisters, 20 strong, and still not break 1000 points, I'd call that a win. If you can have 3 Penitent Engines on the table without paying more than about 80 points for each, then that's a vast improvement. If you can get Seraphim on the table for 8 points a model, then who cares how 'crappy' the rules seem?

Without points values, all of this is rather worthless because we can't make any lists. We can only assume. Saying anything about any of the new beastiary is bad is premature extrapolation, so chill out till we get the point values, then you can bash it all you want. Bashing it now is like bashing politics when you don't even know what a democrat or republican is.

Truth be told you can do 5 squads of 20 for 1010 now. Fitting in an extra squad of 20 sisters is not going to help much. Also you have to think in terms of spending as well. A pack of 3 sisters hit around 20 dollars and any upgrade models hit at 10 a piece. So a squad of 10 with melta, flamer, and upgrade char is going to cost you 90 dollars before taxes, the good news is you can buy two more squads at 70 dollars a piece making 3 squads of 30 models costing you 230 dollars before taxes. That's almost a dollar per point and you thought guard cost a lot. Assuming 6 squads of 20 will cost 1k pts that's 8.3 points a pop. So at 230 dollars before taxes I'm getting 250 points of sisters and through in 40 dollar rhinos that's 350 dollars I'm spending for 355 points and that's before taxes.

So with an all metal army cheaper is not really better. I would think GW would make them appealing so people will buy up the metal models. Right now I have a cannoness, saint celestine, 20 sisters, 2 immolaters, 2 exorcist, and 10 repentia. I was going to do pure sisters before the hike and I wanted to wait for the codex to come out, now I don't know if I should had bought the models or be thankful I didn't buy them.

Doesn't their power armor ensure that they don't?

Just because they have power arour doesn't mean they're super durable. Being t3 they take more wounds than marines and die often enough. Weapons like hotshot laspistols wound on 4 instead of 5. Also Tau wounds on 2s which is a bother on saves as well.

[silashand]

Doesn't their power armor ensure that they don't?

You obviously haven't played SW, BA, GK or IG lately. With the number of power/AP3 or better/longer range weapons in those lists (combined with the number of attacks the three marine lists can dish out), the *only* thing that keeps my Sisters competitive is the 3+ invul and the occasional DG AP1 shot. Without either of those these armies will wipe the table with the Sisters. Now that both are effectively gone, I don't see anything at all to compensate in the current environment except maybe taking big units of DCAs (which aren't even Sisters ).

Cheers, Gary

[andrewm9]

You obviously haven't played SW, BA, GK or IG lately. With the number of power/AP3 or better/longer range weapons in those lists (combined with the number of attacks the three marine lists can dish out), the *only* thing that keeps my Sisters competitive is the 3+ invul and the occasional DG AP1 shot. Without either of those these armies will wipe the table with the Sisters. Now that both are effectively gone, I don't see anything at all to compensate in the current environment except maybe taking big units of DCAs (which aren't even Sisters ).

Cheers, Gary

Sisters have lost a serious amount of marine killing power with the loss of divine guidance. Perhaps if the number of special weapons our squads can us goes up then Sisters might do OK for killing power. Since I see no mention of new weapons in the fluff listings for units I must assume that weapon ranges oevr 24" are still limited to the heavy bolter and the Exorcist for now. For an all shooting army the amountof long range fire power Sisters have is extremely limited. What I am seeing so far fixes none of the issues that Sisters had and introduces whoel new ones. I am willing to wait for the 2nd half of the codex before I pronounce final judgement, btu I am not filled with confidence.

On another note I used to play regualry against the old Blood Angels codex and it was a fairly solid codex but it lacked any possibilitty of chnaging up the army for competitive play. This looks to be worse for Sisters with the near removal of the defining mechanic for Sisters. No unit listing made me say "Wow!" like other new 5th edition codexes have. I'll just wait and see though for the wargear as there are no other special rules to found in this half I imagine with the other few pages being all fluff.

[Necron2.0]

Well, they were losing money as of their mid-term report.

AAaaaggghhh! Help me! I'm shrinking!!

[wallweasels]

Bleh, I agree entirely with all the hate being spread around. I was note excited while reading any of the rules so far :/ You know you get all little excited or jaw-dropped when you read stuff like strength 7 rending psycannons or Jaws of the World Wolf :P Really Iwas just not very interested in what I was reading.

For the most part the poeple who are going "oh yeah power armor horde" don't play sisters, or at least might have played sisters before but don't care much for them now. Now the issue is, sure if that works and its somehow hyper-competitive well thats nice...but it doesn't "feel" right now does it? Does it really feel like the sisters we had? its a complete tone change of the rules and thats something thats very hard to accept when you like the way something works. It is easy to look at low points costs and power armor and think "AMAZING!!!1!" without considering the damage they can actually deal. A horde of orkz boys works because if half die, they can still dish out 4 attacks each. While 2 shots per bolter from 20 sisters might hurt a unit, if half die before they get there...they won't hurt much. Combined with the horrible morale issues that seem to exist so far...I can see "horde" being easily tabled by a good combat force.

My ONE saving grace is this: The bestiary, unlike other bestiaries in codex's, does not define unique weaponry. The Exorcists profile doesn't mention its unique weapons rules. Repentia don't tell you what Eviscerators are or even neural whips. Notice the lack of definition of wargear? Well hopefully we have some snazzy wargear on the second part :| Hell maybe even Book of St Lucius still exists in some form and might solve the moronic morale issue. Going from stubborn to "some fearless" is a really big disappointment.

Also: Long time lurker first post

[DarkLink]

Doesn't their power armor and being significantly cheaper ensure that they don't?

Fixed that for you.


We'll see what happens when, y'know, we actually see the whole rules all you whiners.

[Melissia]

If they were cheap enough that SoB became a Power Armored Horde with tons of flamers, would that be bad?

Undeniably yes. Sisters are supposed to be shining examples of all that's good about humanity, elite soldiers who protect the faithful, defend the Imperium, and take back what was lost to heretics and xenos so long ago.

The Imperial Guard is cannon fodder, and that's kinda unfair even to them. Sisters are the absolute best in unaugmented (in the sense of cybernetics and biological implants, like the Skitarii and Astartes) human soldiers, the elite of humanity.

Doesn't their power armor ensure that they don't?

Not really, given the large number of power weapon like effects, or AP3 or better weapons. Try facing Imperial Guard with said 6x20 footslogging Sisters. It'd be a massacre.

Celestians USED to be able to hold themselves in melee against tacticals and devastators, but now they probably won't even win a battle against devastators even if they get the charge. Seraphim are right out-- they'll be lucky to get off a hit and run now, with Initiative 3.

We'll see what happens when, y'know, we actually see the whole rules all you whiners.

Shut up, troll.

[SMC]

Undeniably yes. Sisters are supposed to be shining examples of all that's good about humanity, elite soldiers who protect the faithful, defend the Imperium, and take back what was lost to heretics and xenos so long ago.

The Imperial Guard is cannon fodder, and that's kinda unfair even to them. Sisters are the absolute best in unaugmented (in the sense of cybernetics and biological implants, like the Skitarii and Astartes) human soldiers, the elite of humanity.Not really, given the large number of power weapon like effects, or AP3 or better weapons. Try facing Imperial Guard with said 6x20 footslogging Sisters. It'd be a massacre.

Celestians USED to be able to hold themselves in melee against tacticals and devastators, but now they probably won't even win a battle against devastators even if they get the charge. Seraphim are right out-- they'll be lucky to get off a hit and run now, with Initiative 3.

Shut up, troll.

The sisters are church and inq fodder. The rest of that stuff is all you dude. Basically fanatical storm troopers in PA. That's the way the fluff and black library have been going for years.