SoB WD codex 'leaked'

[MaltonNecromancer]

I've got only one real question. It's not a rules one; it's the absolutely most important question.

If there are no new models, what on Earth is the point of this whole exercise?

Seriously, turd-level codex is fine as long as I get shiny new plastics. But turd codex and same old malformed sculpts?

What are they even bothering? The need to fill White Dwarf with padding must be high indeed...

[eldargal]

I already factored in the squad leader, hence the 50% chance to get a useless AoF instead of 2/6. It is still a 50% chance to get a useless act, sure it can be higher, but it is still useless.

They aren't Space Marines, but they are still elite trained humans. As it stand they have +1 LD and +1BS to a guardsman. They are not supposed to be a horde army, occupying as they did the middle range between GEQ and MEQ, but that is what they seem to be becoming. A horde army that has an army special rule which scales terribly the more squads you have.

Celestine is excellent, one of the few bright points in this book. The Cannoness gets +1WS and a mediocre act of faith, hardly a scintillating buff.

Acts of Faith are situational, but that is irrelevent. They are what is supposed to make this army different, as I said, how would you feel if all the SM special rules only worked on a 5+ and were limited to a D6 per turn? Even then it would be better than AoF, because at least most of the SM special rules are useful. In fact I can't think of a 5th ed codex with so many useless or subpar abilities as this codex.

I have said many times we do not know the full picture, but this is not a kneejerk reaction. It is a considered reaction to the facts as we know them at present. It doesn't look good. Maybe the wargear section will fix everything, I truly wish it would. But I do not hold out much hope.

I don't want an overpowered codex, I want a fun, fluffy army that is exciting to play and offers an interesting variety of choices. That is not what we are getting, and I honestly don't see how the wargear section could alleviate the mediocre tedium that is the Acts of Faith.

Be honest...you'll have squad leaders for the LD9...maybe even priests. You're just looking for something to be mad about there.

Also, Acts of Faith are situational. You won't need to pop them on every single unit in your army every turn.

The stat lines are mostly the same. Two units had initiative decreases from four to three. This brings them more to par with what they should be imo. They aren't Space Marines. They're normal humans in really nice armor. Celestine and the Canoness got buffed. Celestine is on par with a DE Archon...boohoo right?

Dominions can have twin linked special weapons now. Retributors get rending. Yeah those Acts of Faith are totally useless I don't know what I was thinking...in fact all the AoF are pretty useful for the units they're assigned too.

I agree with the complaint about being hindered at higher point games. That doesn't make much sense to me. 2D6 for 1000-2000 pts is pushing it though. You won't even need that many points in a turn unless you roll amazingly bad. Maybe 1D6+3 would make more sense, but thats a moot point.

Regardless, you have no idea what your wargear options are or what some of the special gear in the book is. Knee jerk reactions are usually superb right?

Quite so, I could live with this codex if I had lovely new plastics, yet they certainly aren't coming in August and there are no pictures of them in the WD to build anticipation so it doesn't bode well. So at present it looks like we will have a horde army with a defininf gameplay mechanic that doesn't work with a horde army that has some of the most expensive basic troops models in the entire game, that are outdated and damned difficult to convert. Hurrah.

I've got only one real question. It's not a rules one; it's the absolutely most important question.

If there are no new models, what on Earth is the point of this whole exercise?

Seriously, turd-level codex is fine as long as I get shiny new plastics. But turd codex and same old malformed sculpts?

What are they even bothering? The need to fill White Dwarf with padding must be high indeed...

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'm not a sisters player, but from a mini-designer/developers point of view : AWFUL.

I don't think it would of even been THAT bad if they had actually released plastic kits. Sisters main weakness was the lack of plastics, and ancient models that date back to second-edition, and of course all being metal too!

What they SHOULD of doneis release the CORE of the miniatures they need, as an example I think it should of worked like this ;
1) a plastic 10-girl kit that makes your generic sisters (DE warriors/wyches price)
2) a plastic 5-girl kit that makes Dominions/Celestians/Retributors)
3) a plastic 5-girl kit that makes Seraphim
4) a plastic kit that makes a Penitent engine

Basicly, effectively giving Sisters players a "core" of the minis they NEED, with the WD rules being just a "temporary" thing until they get a proper codex in early 6th edition (say no more than a year later) - and with the "core" minis in plastics it would of enabled them to do add lots of new stuff and give them "good" rules when the time came to do the real codex as it would of freed up the release-slots.

But no, all I see as a "release slot filler" hackjob, when it could of been a great way to give them the miniatures they so desperately need and deserve. I'll still hope the final part of the codex proves me wrong and they WILL give sisters players some plastic kits - but I'm not holding my breath.

Sisters players really deserve more IMO. If this was an army I played id be quite annoyed.

[wittdooley]

Why would they release the minis with a WD codex.

Do we know if the minis are even ready?

We know they're as WD codex that no one here likes. That's it.

[Melissia]

Be honest...you'll have squad leaders for the LD9...maybe even priests. You're just looking for something to be mad about there.

No.

We have lost Light of the Emperor for all squads except Battle Sisters. With the Armoury gone (no 5th edition codex has one), that means we also lack BoSL.

Imagine if you removed ATSKNF and Combat Tactics from all Space Marine armies. Would they be weaker as a result? Don't answer that question, I'll do it for you: The answer is yes.



edit: as a side note...


"I like how you are able to call this "duh worst book EVAH" from looking at two units in the book"

I've looked at the entire bestiary.

[chicop76]

Be honest...you'll have squad leaders for the LD9...maybe even priests. You're just looking for something to be mad about there.

Also, Acts of Faith are situational. You won't need to pop them on every single unit in your army every turn.

The stat lines are mostly the same. Two units had initiative decreases from four to three. This brings them more to par with what they should be imo. They aren't Space Marines. They're normal humans in really nice armor. Celestine and the Canoness got buffed. Celestine is on par with a DE Archon...boohoo right?

Dominions can have twin linked special weapons now. Retributors get rending. Yeah those Acts of Faith are totally useless I don't know what I was thinking...in fact all the AoF are pretty useful for the units they're assigned too.

I agree with the complaint about being hindered at higher point games. That doesn't make much sense to me. 2D6 for 1000-2000 pts is pushing it though. You won't even need that many points in a turn unless you roll amazingly bad. Maybe 1D6+3 would make more sense, but thats a moot point.

Regardless, you have no idea what your wargear options are or what some of the special gear in the book is. Knee jerk reactions are usually superb right?

With the material that's out there so far it's worst then before, Retributors and the whole army could rend, now only Retributors.

So far the only improvement I've seen is the Dominions and the Repentia who couldn't use faith before cqan now hit back if they die.

The higher the game the more units you have, if you have like 10 units sharing d6 faith a turn it hurts the army.

The old faith system I gained faith for every faithful unit I had, 13 is a good number of fatith to start off with and 2 more from Litanies of faith, if your faithful models die you generate faith so that 13 could easily be 25 and 27 counting LoF, minus one due to if everyone is dead who would use the faith.

The +2 invulnerable save Paired Cannoness with master crafted eviserator and blessed weapon was boss, it's similar to two Archons that keep a +2 invulnerble even if they failed their save. It's a huge differance to juse give them a 2/4. This might not be the case when we se the wargear, but frm what we see so far it would piss off any SoB player.

Old Faith did this
1. Fearless
2. Invul save
3. +2 strength at 1 int
4. + 2 int, doesn't work wth 3
5. Ap 1 on rolls of a six either shooting or in hand to hand

3 and 5 faith roll was squad size and under, while 1,2,4 was squad size and higher. So by controlling your squad size and with gear that allows you to roll 3 dice disgarding 1 faith wasn't hard to pull off.

Now each squad gets 1 faith ability and have a pool of 1d6 to share with the army. The faith abilites suck compared to the old ones. The major part of sisters was faith and they crapped on it, so yeah I would be mad. I guess the +6 invulnerable is a snide joke to remind us that they had a +3 invulnerable.

I'm still waiting for the point cost and the wargear options. If the points is cheaper and we have all the same options I wouldn't waste my time playing sisters. The wargear and unit options have to make up the mess they did to the faith system.

An old sister squad popping out of a rhino firing at marines with a 1 use flamer, heavy flamer, melta, and 16 rapid fire shots with rending would kill 8 marines easy with ignoring allocation. With the new dex that's 5 dead marines. Also against nurgle marines they would kill 5 nurgle marines or kill a tyrant, now they would be lucky to put 2 wounds on those units.

Even if the Retribution squad have rending look what slot the squad is in, one less exorcist, assuming the missle lancher does the same thing.

[deadshane]

Also, Acts of Faith are situational. You won't need to pop them on every single unit in your army every turn.

Nor do you with the current rules. That isnt the point. The point is that the powers are less defining...less important, and that means less fun.

The stat lines are mostly the same. Two units had initiative decreases from four to three. This brings them more to par with what they should be imo. They aren't Space Marines.

an initiative decrease is HARDLY "mostly the same". The difference between I3 and I4 is HUGE.

They're normal humans in really nice armor.

Normal humans do not receive the training that SOB would...especially within the elite forces.

Celestine is on par with a DE Archon...boohoo right?

...of which they can get two...probably for less points?

Dominions can have twin linked special weapons now. Retributors get rending. Yeah those Acts of Faith are totally useless I don't know what I was thinking...in fact all the AoF are pretty useful for the units they're assigned too.

Your tone is unneccessarily condescending. Obviously a choice of the current acts of faith is much more versitile and provides for more fluid performance of units on the tabletop. Locking the units into a singular menu of what they can do basically limits us as to what one can do with a unit. More choices, more options=more fun.

Regardless, you have no idea what your wargear options are or what some of the special gear in the book is.

While this is true, it does nothing to alleviate the pains from the "dumbing down" of the 'faith' mechanic...a DEFINING mechanic for SOB since they've been with us.

Sisters players may be rightly irritated....obviously...its not over yet however. We will hope and pray to the emperor to deliver us from terribad rules.

...EMPEROR HEAR OUR PLEAS!

[wittdooley]

"I like how you are able to call this "duh worst book EVAH" from looking at two units in the book"

I've looked at the entire bestiary.

Have you seen the points? I didn't know if there was a leak of them floating about.

Would it make a difference if all the Sister was say, 10 points?

[silashand]

If SoB are cheaper, that means more squads, which makes the new Faith system even more useless.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. 1D6? Really? Sheesh...

[eldargal]

If Sisters have low points cost it will certainly make them competitive, but at a cost. AoF becomes more problematic* due to more squads and only a D6 worth of points, the new models probably aren't being released with the WD codex so we would be left with a horde army that is two or three times as expensive as other horde armies. Not to mention it leaves Sisters as basically an elite guard army without all the interesting, fluffy options.