Republic?

[webare]

Hey BOLSers. I've come to you for some help! So please do your best to slap me around.

I have been a fan of 40k universe for some time. I love the story/fluff. I just decided to try and start collecting my own army. One problem tho. I cant decide who i want to collect! I don't like one army but i like certain things from many so im kinda caught in this little maze -_-.

For the most part I like to try and relate the factions of the 40k universe to things that i like and decide from there. I am interested in types of government so i decided that what ever race best represents a Republic is the one ill pick but i cant decide between them. I know its a stretch but what race do you think best represents some form of republic?

[BrokenWing]

To be honest? None of them. Nothing in 40k even comes close really.

[Wildeybeast]

Short answer, none of them really.

The Imperium is a mixture of theocracy and a dictatorial beauracracy.

The Orks are primitive tribe based culture where might makes right. The forces of Chaos are in many ways more sophisticated, but also adhere to the same philosophy when it comes to who is in charge.

Tau are an almost Utopian collective, everyone working together for the greater good, under the direction of the ethereals, to produce a happy and harmonius society for all. What happens to those who don't agree with what makes a happy and harmonius society is fairly obvious.

Tyranids have no concept of government or society, nor any need for one. Ditto the Necrons.

Dark Eldar are a mercantile society where wealth is power. The currency of the realm is pain and misery.

I believe the Eldar system of governance is based on a council of the wisest guiding the fate and direction of each craftworld, though the Eldar tend to be quite indivdualistic, so the they don't really fit the republic mold.

None of the races have any kind of democratic representation or an individual say, so the republic model isn't really applicable to any. Perhaps the Tau are closest, where those or are most qualified from all areas of society get to advise the government, but the decisions are still ultimately made by a ruling elite.

[eldargal]

Craftworld Eldar governments seem to vary, one at least is an aristocratic oligarchy, I could see others ranging from republics to monarchies, democratic or otherwise.

Apart from that, Tau would be republican along the communist vein, republican party dicatorship where the Ethereals are the party.

[Gotthammer]

If you go by the dictionary defenition:

1. a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.

2. any body of persons viewed as a commonwealth.

3. a state in which the head of government is not a monarch or other hereditary head of state.

Tau are ruled by the Etherals and 'nids have no government so both are right out.

Orks or either Eldar would be the best fit as their rulers are based on superior talent/skill (relative to their social norms) being rewarded with command, and the populace have a theoretically equal chance at assuming the same position and say in removal.

With Orks their only societal gearing is towards battle, and they only respect skill at defeating one's enemies - so he who can defeat all other challengers in combat rules. If he does a rubbish job any boy can challenge him for rule at any time.
Dark Eldar are very similar in their might makes right rule. Vecht rose up from a slave to become de facto ruler of the Dark City. People chose to support them or fight against their power.

Craftworld Eldar can apply themselves to any Path they choose, so there is no restriction aside from natural skill as to who is in charge. They seem largely ruled by their seer castes, but they have no restrictions aside from ability to acheive the highest levels of said caste. Any person seems able to petition the seers for action, but not much of this side of society has been shown.


Imperials can fit, depending on how you look at both them and a Republic. If you consider that the Roman republic was ruled by Octavian/Augustus for a large part with the senate below him a comparison could be made to the Emperor and the High Lords. Every Imperial citizen has as much theoretical chance as any other to become a High Lord, in the same way any person can one day become Prime Minister.
You could also take the the more micro view, in which case Imperial Guard could work, so long as they come from an appropriately minded world. Catachans elect their leaders for example.
Many Marine chapters seem to weigh the opinions of the whole squad/company/chapter in regards to promoting, but the word of the former commander seems to carry more weight. Though Marines have a very different mindset, so accept this willingly even if they don't like it. Then again, like IG you could create a republic minded Chapter if you wanted.
Sororitas haven't really had enough info fleshed out about their rank structure to say with much certainty.
Inquisitors hold conclaves of their peers and are possibly one of the most democratic organisations in the Imperium, at least internally.

[eldargal]

Actually Tau do fit, a state governed by an absolute ruler or a ruling caste without a monarch is still a republic. The Soviet Union under Stalin was a republic. At the same time a monarch can also be elected (the Papacy is a theocratic elected monarchy), people tend to confuse republican and democratic but they are not one and the same.

[Wildeybeast]

Imperials can fit, depending on how you look at both them and a Republic. If you consider that the Roman republic was ruled by Octavian/Augustus for a large part with the senate below him a comparison could be made to the Emperor and the High Lords. Every Imperial citizen has as much theoretical chance as any other to become a High Lord, in the same way any person can one day become Prime Minister.
You could also take the the more micro view, in which case Imperial Guard could work, so long as they come from an appropriately minded world. Catachans elect their leaders for example.
Many Marine chapters seem to weigh the opinions of the whole squad/company/chapter in regards to promoting, but the word of the former commander seems to carry more weight. Though Marines have a very different mindset, so accept this willingly even if they don't like it. Then again, like IG you could create a republic minded Chapter if you wanted.
Sororitas haven't really had enough info fleshed out about their rank structure to say with much certainty.
Inquisitors hold conclaves of their peers and are possibly one of the most democratic organisations in the Imperium, at least internally.

I have to diagree with a number of your points here.
1) The senate under augustus functioned in puppet role only, they had little to know authority.

2)Most Imperial citizens have no chance whatsoever to advance their standing in life. Most Imperial worlds work on almost a caste system, where the social strata you are born into is almost always the one you die in. The are rare exceptions, but the Imperium has no interest whatsoever in promoting talented individuals, it desires only that people do as they are told and fulfill their alloted role in maintaining the Imperium. It is a stagnant giant where all traces of individuality and creativity are crushed in the cogs of vast and uncaring galatic mechanism.
3)You could in theory make a Guard/SM army that elected it's officers, but that is really stretching the fluff. In SM chapter it is the most skilled warrior/leader who is promoted, whilst in many Guard regiments it is usually the upper ecehlons of society who command. Whether they are comptent commanders or not seems largely irrelvant. Either way, on a larger scale, they both function in the dictatorial way most armies do, where the word of the ranking officer is absolute.

[Wildeybeast]

Actually Tau do fit, a state governed by an absolute ruler or a ruling caste without a monarch is still a republic. The Soviet Union under Stalin was a republic. At the same time a monarch can also be elected (the Papacy is a theocratic elected monarchy), people tend to confuse republican and democratic but they are not one and the same.

It depends whether webare is looking for a republic in the sense of one that has simply bumped off it's monarch a la revolutionary France, or one where everyone actually gets a say, a la ancient Athens. Most people in the Tau empire have no say, nor for that matter do they have any desire to do so, they are quite content to trust their unelected ruling elite to do what is best for them and blindly follow orders.

[Gotthammer]

1) The senate under augustus functioned in puppet role only, they had little to know authority.

Just because it was a crappy republic doesn't stop it being a republic. Given what exactly a being a republic means is very vague (as you point out above), it's an academic discussion as to when Rome transitioned from Republic to Empire not really relevant here.

2)Most Imperial citizens have no chance whatsoever to advance their standing in life. Most Imperial worlds work on almost a caste system, where the social strata you are born into is almost always the one you die in. The are rare exceptions, but the Imperium has no interest whatsoever in promoting talented individuals, it desires only that people do as they are told and fulfill their alloted role in maintaining the Imperium. It is a stagnant giant where all traces of individuality and creativity are crushed in the cogs of vast and uncaring galatic mechanism.

Depending on how cynical you are the same argument could be made of western society. And very few people changed social stratas in the classical republics. Republics such as Rome and Athens also excluded huge swathes of their populations from the limited democratic processes and were rife with corruption and such like.
I can think of more stories from 40k featuring 'rags to greatness' tales than I can recall historical equivalents.

3)You could in theory make a Guard/SM army that elected it's officers, but that is really stretching the fluff. In SM chapter it is the most skilled warrior/leader who is promoted, whilst in many Guard regiments it is usually the upper ecehlons of society who command. Whether they are comptent commanders or not seems largely irrelvant. Either way, on a larger scale, they both function in the dictatorial way most armies do, where the word of the ranking officer is absolute.

It's hardly stretching the fluff: "The leader of a Deathworld Regiment or Company is usually elected by his men" - [URL="http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180160_Codex__Catachans.pdf"]Codex Catachans[/URL].

[SotonShades]

While the Imperium most certainly isn't a republic, individual planets and systems range across all types of governance, from tyranical dictatorships to fuedal monarchies to probably anything else you'd imagine. While Space Marines may not work (though the lodges mentioned in the Horus Heresy series may account for something more akin to a republic) you could quite easilly right up some fluff for an IG or SOB army where the commander/cannoness is more a ceremonial title so that they fit in with the main Imperial organisation.


Edit- Sorry, committed the cardinal sin of forum posting and didn't fully read all former posts before pasting the exact same sentiment...