2000 point competitve Spacemarine army.

[desecratedX]

Hey guys, big warhammer player, recently started entering tournaments and competitive play during my free time at university. I placed 2nd at a 40 man tournament last weekend, and i thought i would post the list i used and go into definition of what each does. I am looking for some serious, well constructed positive insight into what i need to fix, modify and redefine. it was a 2000 point game, if you didn't see by the title of the thread.

HQ:

Forge Father Vulkan He'stan - 190

Captain Darnath Lysander - 200

Command Squad - 130
-Storm Bolters +15

ELITE:

Terminator Squad - 200
- x3 Lightning claw sets
- x2 Storm shield + Thunder hammer

Sternguard Veteran Squad - 230
-Combi Melta +5

Ironclad Dreadnought - 135
-CCW; Flamer
-Seismic Hammer; Melta

TROOPS:

Tactical Squad - 185
-Flamer
-Melta Bombs +5
-Combi Melta - 10

Tactical Squad - 195
-Flamer
-Melta Bombs +5
-Combi Melta - 10
-Storm bolter

Tactical Squad - 195
-Flamer
-Melta Bombs +5
-Combi Melta - 10
-Storm bolter

Scout Sniper Squad - 90
-Camo Cloaks +15

DEDICATED TRANSPORT:

Rhino - 35

Rhino - 35

Rhino - 35

Razorback - 40

drop pod - 35

drop pod - 35



Okay, so Forge father makes all Heavy / Regular flamers and Multi / Regular meltas Twinlinked, my army is fairly heavy on the combi / flamer / dreadnought. His 3+ Invul 2+ armor, 5 init with the spear, digital weapons, mastercrafted makes him a serious threat at 190 points, He travels with the command squad in a razorback.

Lysander gives Bolster Defense ( which i use on a objective i really want, and place my scouts there, usally giving them +2 coversave, making them AMAZING objective holders ) and with bolter drill he travels with 10 sternguard in a drop pod to be placed whereever needed, his hammer and shield make him a great tank hunter, and wound allocator.

The Command Squad is great because i love feel no pain because its super gay and broken, nuff said.

The ironclad dread drops down usually turn 1 ( unless they popped smoke ) and takes out a priority tank, usually a vindicator, or transport of high priority.

The 3 Tactical squads are versatile and are great objective holders, takers, and field controllers.

and the Dedicated transport is... well dedicated transport... use the tanks as cover, etc etc..


Lookin forward to whatcha say.

[Velium]

a little super light on the scoring units, imo. i also dont really get where the terminators/scouts with snipers come in. i would consider benching the scouts/terminators/command squad for another squad of sternguard in a pod and maybe a thunderfire cannon. that way you have an odd number of pods (lysander and the dread land turn one) and you can keep vulkan's heavy flamer and a whole nother squad of sternguard in reserve for later.

if youre dead set on keeping the scouts in consider switching them back to just bolters and maybe paying for the missile launcher and snipers with bs 3 and only 5 shots for the squad are pretty lacking.

[desecratedX]

The Terminators are a kill squad, taking out key positions while i move into a better one, i wish i had the points to put a land raider in, but i didn.t

The snipers my friend are the best unit With Captain lysanders BOLSTER DEFENSE i can make any area +1 cover..... so if i bolster a objective, and infiltrate there, bam... that's a 2/3+ cover save.... that makes them AMAZING objective holders, and hey... 5 rending shots aren't arn't all that bad...

[Silversurfer]

I don't see the use of Lysander as far as a simple Master of the Forge would do the same about bolster defences. The command squad is also not so usefull ... with the spared points you could have almost a nice ride for your terminators.

5 thunder termies are ok with Vulkan and get more saves than the claws ones.

Sniper shot may be rending sometimes ... once a turn ... sometimes not even one is rending ... not reliable ... a missile launcher is a great addition to scouts.

What the point on having stormbolters and combi bolters on tactical sergeants ?

You don't assign dedicated transports to their purchased-for units ?

[desecratedX]

Lysander also helps with bolter drill, with the sternguard in a drop pod..

the combi's are for situational tank hunting, as i lack a bit of it in the overall list.

the stormbolters are just... awesome weapons, and they are not on the SGT i believe.

[Tynskel]

I disagree about the 'low scoring models' count. 35 models, for space marines, is a lot: 4 troop choices!


As for the army:

I think it would be better to give the sternguard a rhino than a pod. You can use other rhinos to protect them on the way in.

A drop pod for a tactical squad would be useful to place a unit on a forward objective.

Lysander, at this point, could join either the droppoding tactical squad, making a solid dakka dakka unit from the bolter drill, with additional counter assault capabilities. Or, he could teleport in with your terminators.

Honestly, I think it would be a worth while investment to drop a tactical squad: +220 (including transport rhino)
Replace with:
Vindicator with Siege shield (125)
Upgrade Razorback to twin-Assault cannon (35)
Buy the 2 tactical squads powerfists (50)

10 points left over... If you can squeeze for 5 more, get the Assault Launchers on the Ironclad. I love them, never leave home without them. Being able to 1) charge into terrain is nice, because being able to squish that powerfist before it hits you is nice. Second, defensive grenades are wonderful. I have stopped terminators in their tracks because they didn't have 5 of their attacks.

[Commander Vimes]

The first thing that jumps out at me is the walking termies. They desperately need a Raider to deliver them. Otherwise their slow speed means your opponent gets to choose where and how to deal with them.

The second thing is that you've got almost 400 points spent on characters, which regardless of their buffs is rather excessive. While Vulkan is generally the superior choice with his amazing buffs, for your list Lysander is offering more with Bolter Drill on the Sternguard, and being better in combat. The Sternguard would also benefit a lot from some combi-meltas, at least five, to deal with tanks. They still get their special ammo, so there's little reason not too.

The Command Squad doesn't seem to be doing much for you. Yes it has feel no pain, but it's not delivering anything the rest of the army doesn't. You can take 4 special weapons so load up on melta or plasma.

[Silversurfer]

the stormbolters are just... awesome weapons, and they are not on the SGT i believe.

But only the sergeant could have a stormbolter in a tactical squad so the built of your actual tactical squads 2 and 3 is :

_ 8 marines with bolters and bolt pistols
_ 1 marines with a special weapon and bolt pistol
_ 1 sergeant with a stormbolter, a combi and melta bombs

So 25 pts of upgrades and 10 pts are always useless as far as only a weapon could be fired by a model.

You don't get a free heavy weapon ?

And (I know, I already asked you about that) : you don't assign dedicated transports to their purchased-for units ?

[desecratedX]

HQ:
Forge Father Vulkan He'stan - 190

Captain Darnath Lysander - 200


ELITE:
Terminator Squad - 200
- x3 Lightning claw sets
- x2 Storm shield + Thunder hammer
-Land raider - 250

Sternguard Veteran Squad - 230
-Combi Melta +5
-drop pod - 35

Ironclad Dreadnought - 145
-CCW; Flamer
-Seismic Hammer; Melta
-drop pod - 35

TROOPS:
Tactical Squad - 175
-Flamer
-Melta Bombs +5
-Rhino - 35

Tactical Squad - 175
-Flamer
-Melta Bombs +5
-Rhino - 35

Tactical Squad - 170
-Flamer
-Rhino - 35

Scout Sniper Squad - 90
-Camo Cloaks +15


Revised list. Sniper Infiltrate a bolstered objective
Forge father AND lysander drop pod with 9 sternguard with a combi
5 terminators ride land raider
3 tactical squads ride rhinos

im also re doing the list with the vindicator to see how it looks, ill post in a bit.

[desecratedX]

HQ:
Forge Father Vulkan He'stan - 190

Captain Darnath Lysander - 200


ELITE:
Terminator Squad - 450
- x3 Lightning claw sets
- x2 Storm shield + Thunder hammer
-Land raider

Sternguard Veteran Squad - 275
-Combi Melta + 5
-drop pod

Ironclad Dreadnought - 195
-CCW; Flamer
-Seismic Hammer; Melta
-Assault Launcher + 15
-drop pod

TROOPS:
Tactical Squad - 215
-Flamer
-Melta Bombs + 5
-Combi Melta + 10
-Rhino -

Tactical Squad - 230
-Flamer
-Melta Bombs + 5
-Power fist + 25
-Rhino

Scout Sniper Squad - 90
-Camo Cloaks +15

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Vindicator - 125


Another revised edition, i have 40 points to spend, any ideas where to put them? i was thinking more combi meltas on my sternguard.