'ard boyz foot Grey Knights

[DarkLink]

So here's a list I threw together just now that I'm considering:

Librarian, Shrouding, Sanctuary, Might of Titan, Quickening, Warp Rift

Xenos Inquisitor, Rad/Psykotroke grenades, power armor, Hammerhand/Force Sword, 3 skulls

2x Venerable Psyrifle Dreads

3x 10 Terminators, 2 psycannons, Brotherhood Banner, 2 Hammers, 7 Halberds

3x Psyrifle Dreads



I just like the idea of 30 Grey Knight Terminators, and I'm not too far short of being able to field that. I think I need one more box of dudes, and some more weapons to make them WYSIWYG.

[celestialatc]

Seems like a very strong list with 5 dreads. I would love to see how well it would do at 'ard boyz. What's your over all strategy? Just march the terminators up the broad? Will you combat squad them?

[Denied]

Personally I would use a Grand Master over the Librarian/ Inquisitor combo. Its a tough one though. interesting list.

[Commander Vimes]

Five AV12 vehicles seems vulnerable at 2500 even if you can keep them in cover. If you end up with second turn against a strong shooting army, they could potentially knock out a decent chunk of your ranged fire by focusing on the non-Venerable dreads, even though they can't suppress you. You also don't have anything that can reliably deal with Russes, though they aren't particularly popular.

Possibly your biggest obstacle is taking objectives in the second mission. Anything that requires you to spread out your forces minimizes the Libby's buffs and hurts your effectiveness. What's your plan for that mission?

This list does seem almost perfectly suited for Kill points in the first mission and victory points in the final mission. I certainly wouldn't wouldn't want to face it unless I was running the three Russ list with plasma sponsons I've been considering.

[plawolf]

Dreads are fully mobile, so I'm guessing he is planning to deploy behind LOS blocking terrain whenever possible on deployment. If he looses first turn, the enemy has precious little to shoot at. On his turn, he can walk the dreads out and blast away with full effectiveness. The same applies if he does get first turn. One of the biggest advantages to walker fire support.

Russies will bother him less than most marine armies on account of the termie armor all round. The only Russ that will put a scare in him will be the demolisher, but that needs to get within psycannon range to fire, and he will be relying on pscyannon rending as his only anti-AV14 weapon anyways, and will probably be sending the Libby shrouded squad after targets like that to get a cover save as well.

As a competitive list, it should do fine. It is quite spammy, but that is not really a valid criticism of typical 'ard boyz lists if I understand correctly.

The biggest problem in the lack of variety is how it limits your tactical flexibility and options. There are only so many different ways you can use the same unit. ANd normally, if someone has the tools to effective kill one unit type, he should be able to rense and repeat and kill all your clone units just as easily.

Darklink is betting on most lists focusing on anti-PA MEQ, and so few lists would pack enough high strength, low AP shots to get through 31 termies and 5 dreads in 7 turns max with any reliability, and is sacrificing tactical finesse to achieve that.

Personally, I would drop one normal dread and take a Vindicare to give you some extra choices and options. With two normal and two ven dreads, you should have a solid enough fire base that is pretty survivable to boot.

The vindicare is pretty resilient to fire, especially since you are taking a shrouded libby. Place the vindicare right, and you could potentially have 2-3 turns of shrouding boost for him.

[Neelam]

I agree with taking a vindicare , you could drop a venerable rifleman for it and then buy psybolts for the 10 man squads. 48 strength 5 shots per round is nothing to be sniffed at (I think my maths is right there).

I was thinking of trying to get the 15 terminator models i have into a 1500 pt game (5 of them being ghost knights) , i like the idea of an all terminator army as well.

[Tynskel]

Executioners will love this army. Throw in some plasma vets and a manticore. Top it off with auto cannon Hv weapons teams.

[DarkLink]

Something to remember is that GKs shoot back, too. There are plenty of lists out there that can kill 30 terminators pretty easily if I just sit back and let them. It's a lot harder to do when half your vehicles are wrecked, shaken or stunned and trapped in your own deployment zone, though.


A Grand Master's another good choice for this army, but I wanted the Shrouding since I'm all foot and I didn't have enough points for both a GM and a Librarian. Though I could drop one psyrifle dread and upgrade the Inquisitor, then fit in a cheap scoring unit. I'd have to trim a few points from somewhere else to make that work, though.

Five AV12 vehicles seems vulnerable at 2500 even if you can keep them in cover.

In my experience, IG is the only army (or Tau with broadsides too, I guess) that can reliably win a gunfight with a bunch of psyrifle dreads quickly enough to matter. And I should still get a few rounds of shooting in at the least. All I need to do with them is kill some Chimeras, and even in a bad matchup they should be able to accomplish that.

You also don't have anything that can reliably deal with Russes, though they aren't particularly popular.

Yeah, well, Grey Knights in general don't have anything that can reliably deal with Russes, other than outflanking psycannons which not all lists have. Unless it's an exectioner or demolisher, though, it's not too big of a deal.

Possibly your biggest obstacle is taking objectives in the second mission. Anything that requires you to spread out your forces minimizes the Libby's buffs and hurts your effectiveness. What's your plan for that mission?

It's stupid to bunch up dudes around a librarian for some minor buffs when you need to spread out. Don't think of the Librarian in that fashion. The librarian is just there to buff one or two squads, and if I happen to have the opportunity to buff more than that then great. But I'm not going to ruin my chances of winning just to get a +1 to my cover save.

Anyways, 30 terminators can cover the entire center of the board, and I can always combat squad. Or march 20 Terminators into my opponent's deployment zone while the other 10 sit back and shoot from objectives.

This list does seem almost perfectly suited for Kill points in the first mission and victory points in the final mission. I certainly wouldn't wouldn't want to face it unless I was running the three Russ list with plasma sponsons I've been considering.

Pretty much. These aren't the most balanced missions ever. Though I forgot about the traitor thing, and I don't want to have to lose a 40pt terminator, so I'll need to switch something up to fix that.

I agree with taking a vindicare , you could drop a venerable rifleman for it and then buy psybolts for the 10 man squads. 48 strength 5 shots per round is nothing to be sniffed at (I think my maths is right there).

I was thinking of trying to get the 15 terminator models i have into a 1500 pt game (5 of them being ghost knights) , i like the idea of an all terminator army as well.

I've taken 10 terminators or 6-7 paladins in every single game I've played so far, and they've never failed me, even against armies that the internet says owns GK terminators/paladins. They're awesome.

Dreads are fully mobile, so I'm guessing he is planning to deploy behind LOS blocking terrain whenever possible on deployment. If he looses first turn, the enemy has precious little to shoot at. On his turn, he can walk the dreads out and blast away with full effectiveness. The same applies if he does get first turn. One of the biggest advantages to walker fire support.

Pretty much. And even if I'm still in LOS but get even just 4+ cover, it still takes a lot of shooting to kill a psyrifle dread.

As a competitive list, it should do fine. It is quite spammy, but that is not really a valid criticism of typical 'ard boyz lists if I understand correctly.

Anti-spammers are like the hipsters of 40k. I just take what I want to play, and if I want to play a lot of Terminators then I need to spam. And psyrifle dreads are practically an auto-include, and since I don't have rhinos to provide cover and draw fire I need enough psyrifle dreads to take a lot of enemy firepower.

The biggest problem in the lack of variety is how it limits your tactical flexibility and options. There are only so many different ways you can use the same unit. ANd normally, if someone has the tools to effective kill one unit type, he should be able to rense and repeat and kill all your clone units just as easily.

Meh, not a big deal with Grey Knights. Remember, each and every one of my units can move, kill infantry, pop tanks, and clean up in assault. Well, the Dreads aren't that good in assault, but the Terminators are. My list's only real weakness here is that I can't tankshock stuff off objectives, and can't move 12" per turn reliably so I'm kinda slow.

Darklink is betting on most lists focusing on anti-PA MEQ, and so few lists would pack enough high strength, low AP shots to get through 31 termies and 5 dreads in 7 turns max with any reliability, and is sacrificing tactical finesse to achieve that.

I've found that most lists spend so much time trying to kill psyrifle dreads that their high ap has trouble dealing with 10 terminators, let alone 30. That's part of why I'm interested in seeing hoe this list does.

Personally, I would drop one normal dread and take a Vindicare to give you some extra choices and options. With two normal and two ven dreads, you should have a solid enough fire base that is pretty survivable to boot.

The vindicare is pretty resilient to fire, especially since you are taking a shrouded libby. Place the vindicare right, and you could potentially have 2-3 turns of shrouding boost for him.

Honestly, I can't say I'm a fan of the vindicare. He's much, much easier to kill with a stray missile or lascannon shot than a Dread, even with lots of cover. And no matter how reliably he'll hit or penetrate, you still have to roll damage and still have to get past enemy cover saves, so even with AP1 you're down to less than a 25% chance of killing a vehicle, and you only get a single shot a turn. Most of the times I've seen him played have turned out exactly like that.


Plus I don't own a vindicare, so...

Executioners will love this army. Throw in some plasma vets and a manticore. Top it off with auto cannon Hv weapons teams.

But against almost every other army in the game? And honestly, with 5 psyrifle dreads I should be able to pop those transports far enough away from me to minimize damage, and Terminators can spread out a lot. Executioners are still nasty, but how many people take multiples of them?

Incidentally, the IG opponent I've usually faced typically takes 3 manticore, and they spend all their shots on psyrifle dreads.

[weeble1000]

That list looks pretty good to me considering the missions we'll have this weekend. It'll be a tough nut to crack, but you may have some trouble with the objective mission unless you simply cripple and demolish your opponent's army, although this list looks capable of doing just that.

I wouldn't like to be on the other side of the table, even with IG. With such a low model count, you could run into trouble if you get a run of bad rolls. It's a tough list that will do very well with average rolling, but you've got a bigger exposure to bad luck.

My IG list isn't really optimized for Ard Boyz

(CCS plas, 2x PCS flamers, 2x plas Vets, 2x melta vets [all in chimeras] 4x infantry squads, 2x lascannon hvy wp squads, 1x AC hvy wpn squad, 1x 5 man squad of ST w/ 2 meltas, 3x Vendetta, LRBT, LRDM, and a Medusa)

But in thinking about how I would handle your list, I would likely ignore the dreads, create a cover-happy LOS blocking parking lot of chimeras to minimize KP loss from those, screen my special weapon and heavy weapon units from assault with two 20 man blobs, and focus on wasting as many termies as possible and quickly as possible.

The termies are the real threat in your list. The dreads will do plenty of damage, but they'll absorb a lot of fire that could be taking out termies and they'll eventually run out of things to shoot. If you split fire between the termies and the dreads or ignore the termies to take out the dreads, you've then got 20-30 angry terminators in your face and no way to reliably deal with them.

With twice the KP of your list, the KP mission would be a wash unless I got all of the bonus KP points and denied you any, but objectives would be a much easier time and a modest dose of bad luck on your part could put me on top in victory points. But I think the strength of your list is that a lot of opponents will look at the table and be thinking about how to avoid losing rather than having a clear idea about how to win. It isn't an unbreakable list, but it is certainly 'Ard.

[DarkLink]

Actually just had a thought. I'm kinda slow, but Interceptors aren't and I've been looking for an excuse to try them out again. I've taken them once or twice, but freak accidents prevented me from actually using them (in one game, my opponent caused ten wounds on them, and I failed 8/10 armor saves).


So dropping a unit of Terminators in exchange for a Strike Squad and an Interceptor squad, plus dropping a Venerable Dread and upgrading the Inquisitor gives me this:

Librarian (6 powers)...180
Grand master (grenades, 3 skulls)...225
Venerable Psyrifle...195
2x10 Terminators...950
10 GKSS (1 Hammer, 2 Psycannons)...230
10 Interceptors (1 Hammer, 2 Psycannons)...290
3x Psyrifle Dreads...405

Total: 2475

That lets me put psybolts on something, and maybe a fourth skull?