a sad day , take a moment to remember.......

[fuzzbuket]

the 3rd edition codices.


why am i sad? well 3rd ed dexes (DH as example)
had
written by andy chabers, phill kelly and graham mcniel (yay)
fulff/ stories
BIG armoury
army list
collecting a GK army
how to paint
how to convert
showcase (gamesday winners and staff minis)
daemonic battlefields (aka page of pics of skirmish games)
daemonic alleis for your opponent (and possesion!)
narritives (why do they fight ig?)
2 uniqe missions
special charecters
more stories!

5th ed
matt ward (boo)
matt wards 'fluff'
army lists
armoury
pics of the same GK and 1 or 2 pics of battlefields
army list


yes 5th ed is more competitive and 'child friendly' (look at the old SOB dex :P) and 'balanced'
but 3rd ed dexes were FUN

-fuzz

(p.s. this is my opinion, i know a lot of people disliked 3rd ed as it remeved a lot of units)

[MaltonNecromancer]

In response, my opinion:

"written by andy chabers, phill kelly and graham mcniel (yay)" - don't care.

"fulff/ stories" - always dreadful; never read a 40K story that wasn't terrible. So I don't care.

"BIG armoury" - Have you seen DE 5th?!! Every army has a massive weapon selection; it's just tailored to specific units now, rather than being for "hero" units (ugh) like before.

"army list" - They were always awful: "Really GW? My Marine army should have a Tactical squad, an assault squad, and a devastator squad? How original!I would never have thought of that!"

"collecting a GK army" - Most pointless part of the codex; I buy the models I like, and the ones that are good. I ignore the rest. I can work out which I like and which are good on my own - if I want an extended advert, I'll read White Dwarf.

I'm kidding, I'll never read White Dwarf.

"how to paint" - yes, like a total amateur. Honestly, black lining was a waste of time, and made your models look ugly too. Check the tutorials on Coolminiornot, or frankly any decent gaming blog.

"how to convert" - Or you could google "convert _______________"

"showcase (gamesday winners and staff minis)" - staff minis, I couldn't care less about. Games Day minis, yes. That I miss. Apart from on coolminiornot. Where they are posted. From multiple angles.

"daemonic battlefields (aka page of pics of skirmish games)" - Never cared too much for them myself; there seem to be quite a few in the new GK codex.

"daemonic alleis for your opponent (and possesion!)" - Not very well balanced, though. And I hear people quite like their games to be balanced. If you want them, just use house rules.

"narritives (why do they fight ig?)" - Again, just do it yourself.

"2 uniqe missions" - There's a whole book of missions now!

"special charecters" - Have you seen how many special characters there are?! DE have about ten!

"more stories!" - All of which involve heroes (yawn) bravely struggling, blah blah... blood, death, blah blah... We now have Black Library for all your war porn needs.

So ultimately, I'm not hugely convinced things have gotten as bad as you say they have...

[SonicPara]

Nostalgia is a cruel hallucinogen; if you give in to it then everything forward will always be inferior to your ever inflating memories of past "greatness." Just be happy that 5th edition is inviting, functional, flavorful, and modern casting technology has brought us models as breathtaking as the Dark Eldar revamp.

Live in the now and look to the future.

[Lexington]

Eh.

I'm no fan of a lot of what 5th Edition's Codexes do, but the Daemonhunters/Witchhunters era was pretty dreary in and of itself. Armories are unnecessary, and flatten points costs for upgrades that have variable utility depending on what they're given to. Most of the articles were bone-numbingly obvious (hey, buy miniatures, who'd have guessed?), the layout was shockingly bad, and while the background didn't nearly aspire to Ward's heights of feckless drivel, it was usually ho-hum at best. Heck, the only good story in the DH Codex was the snippet about Stern and his squad barging in on M'katchen, and that's because it was an old Bill King short from the RT days.

Honestly, if you want some really solid Codexes, the old 2nd Edition books were tough to beat. I still leaf through my copies of the Space Wolf, Chaos and Eldar books from that era, just because the writing and layout were so damn good.

[Astartes]

The fluff as of late has mostly been about the Imperium wrecking face, as opposed to the reality of our make-believe game where they're constantly on the defensive and losing worlds faster than they can deal with. I wish the Codexes would illustrate the sense of dystopian hopelessness that the 3rd ed book achieved.

"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. ... Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the GRIM DARK FUTURE there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods." -Every 40k Black Library book ever

See, THEY get it. If anything, the Black Library folks should be the ones writing all the Codex fluff, to keep the game in line with the story and general mood/tone of 40k.

I feel like 40k has become toned+dumbed down, and infused with a cartoon-y element, to appeal to 'the younger audience' GW is always so concerned about. Listen: When I was 11 and I saw the Grim Dark Future of 40k, the old charcoal + pen and ink art of 3rd ed, I was like "holy ****, this is so much cooler than anything else I have ever seen" just because it felt geared towards a teen audience. The morbidness of the amazing art+fluff made the game appealing because it felt 'alternative', and what the internet has come to call 'grimdark'.

GW shouldn't forget their roots, and the appeal of a hopeless dystopian far-future of Humanity. It's what made them unique and drew in their now older customer base (who have more $$ than kids).

[Uncle Nutsy]

had a read through of the GK codex just for lulz.

half the stuff is in there for people who don't have much of an imagination. Do you need a reason why this army fights that army? just sit down for five minutes and come up with something. It doesn't have to be awesome, epic or anything. just a reason that you like. done!

Like the person above me said, if you want to learn how to paint your army? well, you can either just dive in, follow the tutorials that are everywhere or have someone else paint them for you.

I guess my tastes are fairly simple. I just like to play. and if it plays well and I don't get mullered even if I don't play a perfect game? that's cool too. I'm just in it for the fun. but a win is cool too. Couldn't care less who writes the dex as long as it works well in the current edition.

Now, if I want a good story, I can just go down to the local library, pick up a book and read that. Maybe get an idea or two from it aswell.

[Velium]

new gk book mentions ghost traps (tesserect labyrinths, my ***... thats a ghost trap) kind of hard to argue with that.

[Lexington]

new gk book mentions ghost traps (tesserect labyrinths, my ***... thats a ghost trap) kind of hard to argue with that.

True. The Grey Knights book would be slightly less odious if they'd replaced Draigo with Brother-Captain Willhelm Venkmanicus...

[eldargal]

3rd edition codices were terrible, they were, what, ten pags long with half a page of fluff mixed throughout. I miss Andy Chambers a bit, but beyond that I prefer the 5th ed codices even if some of the fluff is dubious.

[Xanadu]

Fuzzbuket, I'd be much more inclined to agree with you if you'd spell checked.

In my opinion, the current codexes are much larger, better written affairs than anything beforehand (other than the awesome chaos dex from the close of 3rd ed.) and we should stop moping about what was lost (like your infamous rant about losing Str6 but gaining Str4 ID CC attacks for GKs) rather concentrating on the bright things in the future to come.