The Imperium - Dying out or going strong?

[Denzark]

A recent debate on BoLS main was in response to a Goatboy post about the fluff and how it ought to progress. On comment from a person responding to me was about how it would be nice to see the Imperium kick arse - go on a serious offensive and whup some xenos scum.

Now this got me thinking.

Is the Imperium really in retreat on all fronts? Is there no more expansion and merely a long term rearguard action?

Personally think this is unlikely. I can think of several events that counter this off the top of my head. Did the Hive Fleet which did Macragge not get a slapping? Did the Hive fleet of this current tranche of invasions (with the Inquisitor Kryptman fluff) not get spanked as well? Macharian Crusade? Badab War? Have the Ultramarines not slapped the Tau into submission? Is the crusade referred to in GG not slowly succeeding?

I could see it being the case that you only hear about Imperial defeat or close things as this is interesting. A rampant resurgent Empire never in strife makes for poor reading. I know that traditionally an Empire is only seen as strong when it is growing, but is survival without expansion not an awesome achievement in the face of such odds?

Just thought I would throw this thought out there - as a last thought if the Eldar can hang on so long as a dying race when their race is a mere fraction of the power of the Empire of Man, surely that implies some longevity for the Empire?

[Pendragon38]

More or less mankind is in a staelmate with no way to go on a crusade and defend at the same time. Theres to many enameis/races to contained with at the same time.The more they push out there frontire the thinner the line is that needs protacting. Thats my thought.

[BrokenWing]

I would argue that the Imperium is in a state of contraction. There are periods of time in Imperial history where the Imperium decreases in size and goes through hard times and periods where it expands. Right now it has many difficulties and has been in more of a holding action than an expanding one. The only real concern to me is the difficulties with the Astronomicon, which I think was a bad and unnecessary bit of writing to be perfectly honest.

Honestly I'm not a big fan of the "lets piss on the Imperium" trend in much of the fluff. I know we want grim darkness, but eventually you can have too much darkness and way over do it.

[Freefall945]

The current rulebook opens with a lament about the Imperium being doomed, and they really racheted up the "doomedness" in this edition. The fluff has taken a turn from "Phyrric victory ad nihilum" to "Epitaph of mankind". That could be a good or bad thing. As an Eldar player (and one who experiences that strange sense of nationalism to a fictional race in a fictional universe) I would very much like the Imperium to redouble and press back against its enemies. They make for a gratifying shield and weapon to wield against the vast powers arrayed against the Eldar remnants.

Anyway, the fluff's pretty solid in suggesting how direly perilous the Imperium's situation is. Nothing short of a lore revision, or the Emperor getting off his dusty backside will rescue them. IMHO.

[Kovnik Obama]

My take on it is that the feel of the setting implies a large helping of 'DOOOOOOOM', and for just about everyone. The galaxy, when we think about it, is so damn large, that the mouvance of the battlegrounds and the momentum of each forces seems really devoid of sense (on the largest scale possible). The only constant is, and will ever be, WAR!

The Imperium might well be on its downfall for another 10, 000 years. Even if Terra were to fall. Capitals can be relocated.

The one thing that I feel is contrary to this large scale DOOOM factor, is the prevalence (in the fluff) of small named forces, and repetitive use of same locations. There might be an endless numbers of systems in the Imperium, but we sure only seem to focus on Armaggedon, Maccrage and Cadia. In a same way, the same 5-10 armed forces consisting of less than a thousand mans seems capable of fending off all the enemies that besiege the Imperium ''on all sides'' Which is understandable, because you want to create recognition and attachment to the 'good guys'. But it is nonetheless going against the feel that billions upon billions are endlessly fighting across thousands of world all at once.

[MarneusCalgar]

For me, the Imperium is half falling in disgrace...

It lost the Emperor´s reference, and last 10.000 years has declined. Horus Heresy did a great hurt in the heart of the Empire, and Space Marines and Inquisition hardly make it to defend all territories of the Empire. Now we have many enemies: remnants of Eldar stay apart, but we have Tau Empire rising, Necrons coming back, Chaos, Tyranid Hive Fleets...

So I think maybe in 6th or 7th Ed the theme will be to recover the Empire from it remnants...

[eldargal]

I don't think the Imperiums position is deteriorating in any signficant fashion, but the fluff I think reflects the feeling within the Imperium of standing upon the precipice. It reminds me of the apocalyptic morbidity of the late middle ages with the black death and all sorts of nastiness going on.

[Kovnik Obama]

It reminds me of the apocalyptic morbidity of the late middle ages with the black death and all sorts of nastiness going on.

I've always pictured the average life of an Imperial citizen to resemble that of the Scrapyard in Gunnm. It just sucks, badly. You work you're whole life with no safety whatsoever in the most lawless of land. And if by dumb luck you get to be born on Tiphares, well, lucky you, you're now a cog in a fascist state. You win the right to die horribly in some conflict you had no chance of winning.

(God I hope Cameron doesn't misrepresent my lovely interplanetary terrorist)

[Alpha Omega Protocol]

I think that since the Golden Throne is starting to fail, and it just seems that these last years of M41 is going to hell; that we'll see the Imperium get humbled and pounded till the last hope rests with the Emperor resurrecting/getting healed leading a last crusade to save the Imperium before it is engulfed by its enemies!

[BrokenWing]

I hope not, that sounds really boring. What is new and interesting about the Imperium losing all the time?