chaos help

[The Twilight Fade]

I'm always more fond of the nurgle deamon weapon as you only roll one dice for number of attacks but wound on a 4+ with a re-roll against most opponents which seems to average out quite nicely and reduces the amount of mishaps.

Although I am fond of the khorne one when it works, once took one and butchered a squad of black templars after rolling two 6's for the attacks. It was glorious!!!

[Wildcard]

the defiler will be a question for me to investigate further. everyone says its meh but a walking battle cannon with 5 s10 hits... awesome for defense.

Few points:
1) It takes a heavy support slot
- Eats possibility for 3x Obliterators
2) There are hardly ever a place in gameboard where defiler can hide, even partially
- Enemy can rather easily bring all its heavy weapons he needs to bring down the defiler
3) Defiler is not that good in melee, and if he getst stuck in it you lose the battlecannon shots (most impressive feature of the defiler)

[celestialatc]

as for raptors i wouldnt want to have 20 metal models that are prone to tip over i wish they were plastic) might give them plastic jump packs.
just had a thought.

CSM are great because they are so open to custimization. You want 20 Raptors? Get some assault marines and Chaos them up! If you know a Chaos Warrior player, they will have a ton of bits you could probably use to Chaos them up. Don't have any bits? That's fine! Just make some spikes by cutting up the frames, make their armor look defiled with discolored paint patterns. Or just make them normal assault marines and say they fell to Chaos yesterday!

I play a Word Bearers themed army and I don't like using the troop boxes for the specific troops. So I wanted a couple units of Khrone Berzerkers, I got some space wolf packs, made them with a hand weapon and pistol, used some chaos bits from my warriors of chaos army and now I have a group of Space Wolves that the Word bearers gave to Khrone to make Shock Troops!

[foostufoo]

Khorne Daemon weapons are either extremely deadly or damage you badly. I played a game against a khorne army, he had a khorne lord with daemon weapon in a squad of bezerkers, the only model that took a hit was his lord, annihalted my entire marine squad in one blow. So yea, powerful, but highly unpredictable due to them taking a wound if they roll a one on either of the two dice (pretty high odds!)

Your mostly right on the elites section, termies are pretty much the best choice. Although a squad of possessed in a land raider can do some real damage too. Filling a LR with 10 possessed, moving up as quick as possible, the LR's assault hatch rule (cant rememeber its proper name) can let these bad boys out and assaulting the enemy in just 2 turns if your lucky. Plus lets face it, LR's arent the easiest thing to pierce!

Like someone mentiond before, berzerkers and plague marines are your best troops choices. I've never fielded bezerkers myself so all I know is what I've read/seen others use. But they seem pretty nasty in combat, their price per model isnt that bad either for what you get, just wouldnt advise foot slogging them across the field without a lot of cover, if the opponent has sense, they will shoot them down before they have time to assault. A rhino would be a wise choice, a LR even better, but they arent cheap.

As for plague marines, they are the heart of my army so I am well experienced in their uses! The main negative for the plague marines is that they aren't cheap. However just look at what you get for your points baring in mind they are only 8 points more than a standard chaos marine:

1. Toughness 5, thats scary already, marines with T5
2. Feel no pain, one of the most annoying rules for their enemies. Fail your already decent armour save? No worries, have a 4+ re-roll!
3. They are all equipped with a bolt pistol and CCW AND bolter, meaning they can shoot like normal marines whilst getting a +1 attack in CC
4. Blight grenades: Now this is what I often find in games when using plague marines. Usually if a normal chaos marine squad/SM tactical squad finds themselves within 12" of a nasty CC squad eg. Termies/genestealers etc... they will assault them in their turn so their enemy cannot gain the +1A bonus for charging in their next turn. With blight grenades the enemy gets no such bonus, so if your plague marines are 12" away from something scary, rapid fire the hell out of them with their bolters, then just face them in CC next turn if you havent already wiped them out.
5. Frag and Krak grenades, can be helpful, saves having to buy them as upgrades. (Normal chaos squads do come with these too)
6. Option to take TWO special weapons: one of my favourite things about this squad, they can be assigned to any role. Give em' 2 meltas to pop a tank. Give em' 2 flamers to go infantry hunting. Theres also the option for plasmas which can do both roles, just neither as well.
7. Fearless: they ain't running anywhere.
8. Option to take a rhino: cheap transport to stop them getting shot to pieces on the first turn.

Thousand sons: same points as plague marines, not as much wargear, rules aren't as good, and have to take a pretty expensive compulsary sorcerer in the squad that you have to give one power, making him a minimum of 70 points. He has EXACTLY the same stats as the other marines par from his extra attack. AP3 bolters are nice, but with all the cover saves these days, they are pretty redundant. The 4+ invun save can make them hard to shift. Expensive, personally dont think they're worth their points.

Noise marines: Cheapest of the 4 factions, I5 due to their mark of slaanesh, pretty pointless considering their upgrades are mostly based around shooting. If you leave them without upgrades they are just an I5 normal chaos marine squad. To make them worth taking you need to upgrade their weapons, eve then they arent too great and you find yourself with a pretty expensive squad.

The fast attack section for a CSM might as well not exist. Bikers, REALLY expensive once they've been upgraded with weapons/marks. Raptors, might as well take berzerkers in a rhino. Spawn? Whats that?

As for Heavy Support, havocs are pointless. No manuverabilty, they cant move and shoot so a clever opponent will just move their units out of their LoS, meaning they then have to spend a turn moving, pretty much doing nothing. Defilers, seem an alright choice, never used one/played against one so cant say too much on them. LR, personally use these more for defence/transport, to me using them to shoot is secondary. Vindicators, can do a lot of damage to pretty much any type of unit, just got to be careful they dont get blown up before they get to shoot. Predators, versatile, again be careful they dont get blown up first turn. Oblits, best choice by far! Can choose whatever of their 5 weapons to shoot each turn, they have the weaponry to damage any type of unit. Pretty much in terminator armour, 2 wounds making them even more resilient and a powerfist just incase they get caught in combat AND they can deepstrike! Bring them in near an icon and no need to roll for scatter. What more could you want? Oh yeah, You can have 9 in one army!


Hope this helped!

[Demonus]

I like to take 3 chaos bikers, 1 champ and 2 Melta Guns. Turbo boosting unit that can fly up and pop a tank, or zoom to enemy side and have my Greater Daemon burst out of the champ.

Other than that, yeah fast slot sucks

[Da Gargoyle]

"The fast attack section for a CSM might as well not exist. Bikers, REALLY expensive once they've been upgraded with weapons/marks. Raptors, might as well take berzerkers in a rhino. Spawn? Whats that?" from Foostufoo

Demonus has shown how bikers can be used. As for Raptors, you can only put 10 Berzerkers in a Rhino who can't assault the turn they get out, and cost a little more. With Raptors leap twelve, shoot and assault 6 at least two extra raptors for the points you spend on the Rhino.

[2_Wycked]

Honestly, I never even used the FA choices in the CSM dex, in the 4 years of playing them; nor was I tempted to.

Special weapon delivery is done better by Termicide; it cant' easily reach backfield things like Bikes, but the Bikes' cost and small numbers aren't worth the trade off, IMO.

[Sure]

Which is a stupid mechanic. If a daemon weapon wielder rolls a 1, he should simply take a wound with no armor save, and be resigned to his normal stat attacks. Does any other army in the game have something that cripples them in cc for 1 bad random roll?

Yeah, and does any other single model have the possibility of 16 armor-ignoring attacks?

I'd just say start with one thing you like - a unit/character/concept and build a flexible list out of that. Chaos is not competitive right now so just have fun.

[the jeske]

Yeah, and does any other single model have the possibility of 16 armor-ignoring attacks?

do you want that many attacks on your own turn ? so you can break a unit on your own not your opponents turn and eat the fire power of his whole army ? seems like a bad plan .

then is on top of him being a +5inv lord, he stil dies to fists or stuff that hits at higher I with ID power.
he still has to run with a unit which means your army is presenting fewer targets which are no harder to kill then an army runing other HQ then lords .

emonus has shown how bikers can be used. As for Raptors, you can only put 10 Berzerkers in a Rhino who can't assault the turn they get out, and cost a little more. With Raptors leap twelve, shoot and assault 6 at least two extra raptors for the points you spend on the Rhino.

only a termicid is harder to counter and demon delivery doesnt work so well . If you turbo boost turn 1 and the demon doesnt drop[50% chance] then the 3 bikers are dead and/or your opponent moves away from summoning range . If you dont boost turn and and use more cover then there is a 50% chance to get the demon and end up with somethig moving 6" per turn (+d6 if it runs but then no charge] which costs as much as a winged DP . chaos does not have fast attack.



as defilers go they are not good , true . they are bad as weapon platforms [low AV , cant get cover etc] and not so great in hth[ws3 only 6A] , but they are safest in hth [well as long as they dont charge in to chainfists or thunder hammers] . as almost everything in the chaos dex one has to run 3 of them else they dont work at all.

[Infinite Resignation]

Chaos Dreads are pretty good since the last FAQ means that they only fire frenzy in the direction they are facing. They can fill in some of the long range support hole in the Codex, especially for themed Nurgle or Khorne armies which will likely be lacking in this direction. They are cheap too, and when your autocannon/missile launcher dread does fire frenzy it can be very cool!