Lelith Hesperax: Sweet Mercy!

[Xas]

just chiming in on the tyrant question. She should never be in a position to even have a shot at killing a tyrant because odds are the tyrant will pulp her, he ID her and her high I and number of attacks don't matter because of lash whips and T6. she murders pretty much everything else in the nid codex though.

everything else?

I'd say the nids have the least to fear from Lilith...
warrior genus boast a high number of wounds & attacks. gaunt genus is cheap as hell (how many gaunts for lelith? 40? xD) and the monsters both ID her, dont care much for -1A and are only wounded on 6s.


not saying Lith is bad... just not THAT good vs nids

[Uncle Nutsy]

man, every time I read her stats I end up thinking she does this ingame...

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET6D2a_tJdM[/url]

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I have not been this drunk since, like, April. So I have pretty much no idea what any of you people are talking about.

[eldargal]

Her rules are not lackingt, on paper she is superb against T3 armies, of which there are many, and decent against T4. In reality she performs exceptionally well, she is durable and killy, she reduced incoming attacks, she has a 66% chance of ignoring melee attacks, assuming they hit her, a 50% chance of ignoring shooting attacks and if you get her furious charge she eats through T4 as well. Put her in with some Wyches, or even Incubi, and you will eat through whatever you throw them at so long as you get them into combat safely.

You can't join seven Incubi to a squad of bloodbrides, wyches or Incubi. You can join Lelith to them, however. This is one of the key things people seem to overlook.

I don't need to compensate for my own lack of skill by taking Duke, Baron or Malys so I would rather take someone I can rely to kill things while stopping killy things from killing large swathes of my army. Someone who won't fail their shadowfield save to a being pistol whipped by a guardsman and then get clubbed to death by them.

Oh by far! I'm guilty of using her as a succubus or archon in every list I play. I don't think I've played a game with my DE where her model wasn't used in it. Her actual rules are very lacking though. Combat drugs would make her worth her points. And if anyone says she would then be broken needs a knock on the head. There are far worse characters in the game, combat drugs would just make her even with them! Now if she was also was given Eternal warrior, that would be broken. So yea, give her Eternal warrior or combat drugs and she would be fantastic.

[AbusePuppy]

Very few T3 armies are actually combat-oriented, and against non-melee armies Lelith ends up being sort of overkill (in the same way that Tau don't care whether you're Terminators or Tacticals, as both will massacre them in CC.) Furious charge helps, but if you roll poorly on the initial charge, get stuck in an ongoing combat due to countercharges, don't have those two Pain Tokens yet, are facing T5/6 models, etc, her performance drops a lot.

As I said before, she's hardly bad, but just being a punching machine is pretty limiting. I'd like her a lot more if she ha Combat Drugs, since that gives her a good chance of getting +1Str, reroll wounds, or a pain token to build towards getting her wound rate up. She's still way better than her previous codex version and I like her fluff, model, and the way her rules work, she's just a little bit underwhelming in the end.

Also, hidden Fists have a not-unreasonable chance of IDing her, as do Relic Blades, Frost Blades, etc. Chances aren't great, since Fists will mostly all hit her on 5s, but they're something to watch out for, and if the enemy can get a Force Weapon to land on her...

[eldargal]

True, but if you do get stuck in combat with T5/6 models she has a better chance of surviving than any other character in the DE book, as she reduces their attacks and has a 3++ save that she can't lose to an unlucky roll.

As I said, it comes down to personal taste and playstyle. I never take SCs in regular games at all, but I do get very annoyed with people who say Lelith isn't worth her points. She may not mesh with how you play the game, but that isn't the same thing. I find Hellions next to useless compared to Reavers but you don't see me saying they aren't worth it, and a lot of people swear by them.

[nijoho]

i've had some some similar experiences having kharn the betrayer, in 3 rounda of serious apocalypse gaming he killed 1250 points, so just over 400 points a round, that pretty insane

just for the guys who want to know what he killed:
-cato sicarius
- 1 tactical marine with flamer
- leman russ battle tank
- a deamon prince (it was a mixxed apocalypse battle so there was chaos vs chaos)
- and a stormlord, which went nuclear and killed all 40 IG veterans inside and my own deamon prince( he was not added to the 1250 points )

and he didn't take a wound in that whole game( he was hit by a demolisher canon a hellhammer cannon and a nuclear explosion )

so i guess he made khorne very happ ythat day

[doom-kitten]

Not a big fan of Lelith myself but I can see how she can be useful against low T and WS opponents, just started playing DE myself. Ended up hooked after buying a unit of Wyches to convert into Death Cult assassins, she's done well as a member of that unitr .