Can yoku take luck out of 40k

[Ivarr]

Ok, so I need some input from the general populous here...I have notoriously bad luck with the dice...my Space Marines fail 2/3 of their armor saves, my Necrons get back up with a "we'll be back" roll about 1/5 of the time...after failing 2/3 of the armor saves...I am an average/above average tactician...been playing the game plenty long to understand what works, but with the dice stacked against me no one would ever know it.

Can the influence of the dice on the game be minimized? Is it possible to build an army that takes the luck out of the game? Is there a list that can reward good play while minimizing the punishment for having abysmal luck with the dice?

Please don't try to turn this into an argument about whether or not luck exists, as I have had that discussion with 100s of players...until they play me...then they apologize for my dice, shake my hand and join the rather large group of people who say "You won't believe it!" to the next guy who wants to debate the existence of luck.

In any case, I am very curious about suggested builds or army tactics...

[Cryl]

The more dice you roll the closer you will come to the statistical most likely result. I guess the way to minimise risk is to take the army that maximises the number of dice you roll... anything that lets you reroll would help, so FnP is good, twin linking is good etc

... if it makes you feel any better my necrons rarely get back up either

[Rapture]

The game is based on dice. You ask that no one explains to you that everyone has the same chance because they all use a six sided die, but that it all it is. Due to the fact that shooting and assaulting always rely on dice there is no way to play without leaving it up to chance.

[krispy]

i'd say it could depend on your dice - see this thread: [url]http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=875&highlight=casino[/url]

theres a link on that page to a study some guy did concerning dice %'s

casino dice are statistically more even than the ones we get with these games, unfortunately they also carry a high pricetag AND they can break :P

you could jsut throw your current dice and buy a new set and hope you have more luck

/k

[Drew da Destroya]

Well, you could always play with some Orks. 30 shoota boys throw 60 dice (plus or minus some big shootas)... some of those will have to hit home. You don't have an armor save to worry about failing, and you can absorb a decent amount of casualties before it really starts to affect your army.

Go green tide!

[Nabterayl]

The luck that you can "eliminate" or reduce in the game is generally offensive. You can increase your odds of killing a given number of units, or a single high-value unit, until the odds are to your liking. Add more shots, increase the Ballistic or Weapon Skill of the attacking models, increase the Strength of the attacks, better the armor-piercing capabilities - all of those things increase the odds that you will kill a given number of models. The number of any given type of models it takes to have a 99% chance to kill 20 CSM in a single phase, for instance, is a knowable quantity.

What's much harder to do is increase the odds that any given number of models will live, and I notice that all of the examples you give are defensive. You can have five million space marines on the table, and on average over time (assuming your dice aren't materially flawed), 33% of them are going to fail their armor saves. Nothing you can do will change that. You can add a second roll behind the armor save (WBB or FNP), but there's generally nothing you can do to increase the odds of that roll, either. A few armies can increase the Toughness of their models, but there's really no way to give a model so many defenses that it is effectively invincible.

So you can essentially guarantee that a given model will die, yes. You can't essentially guarantee that a given model will live.

[Xas]

you could jsut throw your current dice and buy a new set and hope you have more luck

QFT.

I own several "decks" of dice, some are average, some abysmal and some feel like allmost cheating (one of my GW scatter dices has a hit-statistic of above 50% ).


if that doesnt help you have to try and play on the lower end of the spectrum. what does that mean? use units that have low characteristics and are cheap. if you fail 2/3 of your 3+ saves you are paying points for something you do not utilize. if you have bad luck with say gaunt or ork saves (6+) there is not much to be lost because you basically have to calculate to fail all anyways with a 6 save.

another thing you should try to maximise is rerolls. so nids are prolly the best army. gaunts are cheap and have a reroll to wound or hit in shooting. stealers give a reroll for melee and monstrous devourers reroll both hits and wounds. additionally the hughe number (for small) or high tougness (big bugs) means the bulk of "defens" doesnt rely on your saves.

[AdamHarry]

The more dice you roll the closer you will come to the statistical most likely result. I guess the way to minimise risk is to take the army that maximises the number of dice you roll... anything that lets you reroll would help, so FnP is good, twin linking is good etc

Spot on. You dont need to take luck out, you need to take the dice factor out. There are two ways to do this:

1) Take armies that maximize the dice you roll and minimize the effects of dice on you? Whats that? failed 6/7 saves? Pfft, grats on killing those orks/gaunts/guardsmen. Oh and here is 90 dice coming back at you...

2)Or armies that let you get a lot of re-rolls. dakka bugs. Hive Tyrants with twin-link devourers for example. re-roll hits and wounds. pretty nice. Eldar with a lot of farseers for that "fortunate/doomy" feeling.

Unfortunately with necrons and marines you cannot really take the 'dice factor' out of the game. Every failed save will cost you, every missed shot will hurt you. Thats what happens with smaller, elite armies (smaller compared to ork/guard horde armies).

I would say "good luck" but i dunno if that will help :P

[oni]

Buy "better" dice. Seriously!

The way dice are made is often less than optimal. It sometimes leaves them with odd, nonuniform shapes and oddly rounded corners. Most of the time you can't tell, but it's there and can mean the difference between rolling randomly or just poorly.

So spend the $ and get 'good' dice.

[brother drakist]

I have a tendency to roll pretty poorly as well. I cannot tell you the number of times I have melted my marines with plasma guns. It's pretty ridiculous. Worst case I ever had was a Space marine squad that I chose to "go to ground." For the rest of the game they failed the LD roll to get back up, while failing every saving throw that came their way. The result of my bad luck? I do my best to keep fire off my units. Casulaties are a given but I have done well but don't even ask me about failed armor saves.