How many Independent Characters?

[The Twilight Fade]

Pretty much what I was going to say. Paladins and Fex's whilst they can be taken as a single model they don't always consist of a single model, therefore IC's can join them even when they are solo where as models like the tervigon simply can't ever have them attached

[Wildeybeast]

The confusion over carnies comes from the phrase "units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures)". GW is trying to be helpful by giving an example of what units are usually always taken as a single model, which monstrous creatures usually are. The key word is most. Carnies are a clear example of MC's that are taken as a unit. So as most people have said, you can attach as many IC's to a unit as you have in a unit, so long as that unit's entry in the army book does not state that you may only choose one model, which means you can buy a single carnifex and attach a Tyranid Prime (being the only Tyranid HQ with the IC rule) but I really don't know why you would want to do that.

[Tynskel]

what you just said makes no sense.

Every model on the board is part of a unit.
eg. A single tank is a unit.
3 land speeders squadron is a unit.

What the rule states is 'units that always consist of a single model...'.

What I am stating here is based upon one's perspective and how one decides interpret the rules.

One way to interpret the rules:
models on the board, regardless of codex entry. There is nothing in the codex entry preventing this interpretation. There's no special rule here overriding the rulebook.

A single model carnifex (or paladin, ect) is placed onto the board. For all intents and purposes, that is a single model unit from that point on. It is always going to be a single model unit, because there is no way to add another model to such unit. Hence, no ICs can join.

You could also interpret the rules in a different way:
Codex layout is in play, regardless of what's on the board.

Either way does not conflict with the rules system.
However, they may conflict with other players interpretations.

[Hive Mind]

Not sure if trolling or just really stupid.

[Tynskel]

Not sure if trolling or just really stupid.

Neither. Just pointing out that this is open to interpretation.

As a bug player, my first love (been collecting since '92), I see the rule can be interpreted both ways.

I lean toward 'the bug player could use all the help it can get', but personally, I think it is all rules shennanigans to get a 'cover save' for the carnifex and 'T6' for the Prime.

That's what this really what this comes down to. min-maxing.
That takes away from the 'spirit' of the game.

[SeattleDV8]

A single model carnifex (or paladin, ect) is placed onto the board. For all intents and purposes, that is a single model unit from that point on. It is always going to be a single model unit, because there is no way to add another model to such unit. Hence, no ICs can join.

The problem with this interpretation is the when the unit an IC has joined is reduced to a single model.
Is the IC forced to 'unjoin' because the unit is now a single model?
The Codex tells us if the Unit is 'always' a single model.
Even if the unit is currently a single model, the fact that it could be larger allows the IC to join.

[Tynskel]

The problem with this interpretation is the when the unit an IC has joined is reduced to a single model.
Is the IC forced to 'unjoin' because the unit is now a single model?
The Codex tells us if the Unit is 'always' a single model.
Even if the unit is currently a single model, the fact that it could be larger allows the IC to join.

No, because the unit already began on the board with multiple models.
There's a difference being whittled down to a single model, and starting as a single model.
Whittled down is not 'always' a single model unit.

Also, no, from the standpoint that the unit cannot some how grow any larger during the battle. This interpretation is based upon the perspective from the board (which is a logical interpretation since all of the rules have to do with units interacting with the board).

[Hive Mind]

As soon as you can point to the wording 'on the board' on p48 of the Rulebook I'll agree that yours is a valid interpretation. Until then, it's just more idiocy from someone who seems to go out of their way to place ridiculous spins on perfectly straightforward rules.

As an aside, if the IC joined the unit pre-deployment then the unit wouldn't 'always consist of a single model' on the board under your interpretation, right? So an IC could form a unit with, say... a Land Raider.

[Tynskel]

Funny you should say that, because 1) ICs cannot join vehicles and 2) the instant you would enter the board you would be violating the rules, whether you use either interpretations. That's a conundrum.

Besides, even if your models are in reserve, they still has to deal with board.

I guess *your* entire unit would cease to exist, right, since *you* are violating the rules before entering the board?


Seriously, Hivemind. You are one of the most antagonistic members on this forum.
4 out of your 5 posts on this thread, alone, are condescending.
No wonder people have ceased to ask interesting rules questions on this forum--- because the instant they say something that you disagree with, you just call them and idiot, or say something demeaning, ect.

You win the prize.

[Hive Mind]

Funny you should say that, because 1) ICs cannot join vehicles and 2) the instant you would enter the board you would be violating the rules, whether you use either interpretations. That's a conundrum.

Do you even own the Rulebook? p48 says "[t]hey cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons... and units that always consist of a single model (like most vehicles and monstrous creatures)." My emphasis.

If your argument is that "always consists of a single model" means "always consists of a single model on the board" then a Vindicator that has had an IC attached pre-deployment would not "always consist of a single model on the board" or be a vehicle squadron and would therefore be a legal unit according to your interpretation.

It's not a conundrum at all, it's an absurd scenario that directly results from your absurd and downright stupid 'interpretation'. It can also be neatly avoided by applying the rule as it is written; are Vindicators a unit that always consist of a single model? Yes they are. Ergo, ICs cannot join them. Are Carnifex/Paladins a unit that always consists of a single model? No they are not, ergo ICs can join them.

Seriously, Hivemind. You are one of the most antagonistic members on this forum.
4 out of your 5 posts on this thread, alone, are condescending.
No wonder people have ceased to ask interesting rules questions on this forum--- because the instant they say something that you disagree with, you just call them and idiot, or say something demeaning, ect.

You win the prize.

The only member of this forum I have ever called an idiot is you. The only posts in this thread that are condescending are the three that are aimed at you. Unless you mean I'm condescending to Caldera because I called him/her 'my old love'? If so, you'd be wrong again; 'my old love' is a term of endearment in Britain.

There is a reason I have called you an idiot and am condescending towards you; you're an idiot who has proved utterly unworthy of any respect whatsoever.