How many Independent Characters?

[Gir]

It can be interpreted either way, but I think Hive Mind is right here (as hard as that may be to believe).

[Tynskel]

as I said before, you would be breaking the rules attaching the IC to a vehicle. Thereby, you could not enter the board. It doesn't matter which interpretation you use, you are still violating the rules when you try to place the models on board.

You also forget, that an IC doesn't count toward the single model unit size. ICs have special rules that allow them to join units. They don't become permanent additions to a unit, therefore your example still makes no sense.

Maybe in this thread, you are just being condescending towards me. However, your comments are consistently a downer in most threads. That's the difference between the likes of you vs the likes of me. You are consistently an demeaning, condescending, and just straight up mean all the time. I am only mean to posters like you.

[Old_Paladin]

The only member of this forum I have ever called an idiot is you.
Unless you mean I'm condescending to Caldera because I called him/her 'my old love'? If so, you'd be wrong again; 'my old love' is a term of endearment in Britain.

And Me.
And I'm guessing that you realize that many members of this forum are not british, and that that phrase does come across as condesending/rude to north americans.
Tynskel is correct about how your personality is perceived as abrasive.


That aside...
Hive Mind is correct about this rule, IMO.
It seems perfectly clear that the rule means non-vehicle units that can never be more then 1, under any circumstances.
Anything that has a 1+ option for unit members can be non-single, but chooses not to be.
Anything that was above one member but is now reduced to one, can be a larger unit, but took too many casualties.
For Tynskel's example of 'once placed on the board,' those units still could have been more then a single member; there is still the possiblity of that pre-deployment.

[Tynskel]

What I am trying to point out is that when you purchase only one carnifex, at no point during the game can you add another carnifex. It is 'always' a unit of one.

Simply an interpretation of the rules.

[Hive Mind]

as I said before, you would be breaking the rules attaching the IC to a vehicle. Thereby, you could not enter the board. It doesn't matter which interpretation you use, you are still violating the rules when you try to place the models on board.

Except that the rules on p48 do not prohibit attaching an IC to a vehicle if we run with your ludicrous 'interpretation'. Only attaching them to vehicle squadrons is explicitly prohibited. I know that's decidely inconvenient for you, but you can't simply ignore that the rules do not say that an IC cannot be attached to a vehicle to form a unit.

You also forget, that an IC doesn't count toward the single model unit size. ICs have special rules that allow them to join units. They don't become permanent additions to a unit, therefore your example still makes no sense.

Oh, they don't count? Because you just said so? There is literally nothing in the Rulebook (or logic) to support this.

Whether they are permanent additions or not is utterly irrelevant. All that is relevant is that if we use your bloody stupid 'interpretation' an IC can be attached to a Predator (not a vehicle squadron, remember?) pre-deployment to make a legal unit as the unit would not "always consist of a single model on the board." Even if the IC left the unit in the first movement phase, the unit would not "always consist of a single model on the board." As you and your awful grammar said; "see the 'always' is in there".

Let's go through the checklist shall we?

1. Is the unit a vehicle squadron? No it is not.
2. Does the unit always consist of a single model on the board? No, it does not.

Ergo, the IC can be attached under your 'interpretation'.

You have utterly failed to say why this is not the case; all you have done is fabricated more rules to get you out of the mess your fabricated rule got you into, a mess that following the rule as it is written in the Rulebook avoids completely.

Maybe in this thread, you are just being condescending towards me. However, your comments are consistently a downer in most threads. That's the difference between the likes of you vs the likes of me. You are consistently an demeaning, condescending, and just straight up mean all the time. I am only mean to posters like you.

Cry me a river, princess. I don't give a flying **** about what you think of me.

And Me.
And I'm guessing that you realize that many members of this forum are not british, and that that phrase does come across as condesending/rude to north americans.
Tynskel is correct about how your personality is perceived as abrasive.

I've never called you an idiot. I pointed out that your interpretation of the law in one thread (the only thread I've ever dealt with you) was laughably wrong.

I don't particularly care how many of you are from North America. If you want to get worked into a lather about an innocent phrase used innocently then that's your problem, not mine.

[Tynskel]

hahahah!

So you think you can attach to a vehicle, eh? There are simply none.
Don't give me wonk about artillery--- they don't follow any vehicle rule other than having an 'armor value'.

bwahahha. I haven't made up a single rule here. That's the funny thing---- you keep defending your vehicle thing----- that's making up rules!

bwahahah!

[Hive Mind]

An incredibly weak attempt to deflect. The point remains that under your 'interpretation' you can attach an IC to a Predator or a Whirlwind or a Battlewagon.

Whether you call them vehicles or whether you call them Tanks makes no difference.

[Old_Paladin]

Having re-read through this start to finish again;
Hive Mind, I think you're missing Tynskel's point.
He means that you have to obey the same rule at ALL times, both before and after being 'on the board'.

You cannot have the IC join a vehicle pregame, as he cannot join a single member unit. He thinks you cannot join 'on the board' because at that point it will always [continue to] be a single member unit (and arguably that once you have completed the army list and said 'want to play a game' you cannot change the army list; so for the whole game (even before set up), it cannot be anything other then a single member unit).

At this point, you guys are taking past each other; and not even remotely talking about the same thing.

[Hive Mind]

That is not what he meant but he's lucky that you thought up that escape route for him.

Regardless, none of this "on the board" nonsense is even hinted at by the rules on p48 and no matter what rot Tynskel can dream up, a Carnifex/Paladin unit does not always consist of a single model. It can do so, but it does not always do so.

[SeattleDV8]

Agreed, there is no 'on the board' wording.
Just because someone can think up another interpretation does not mean it has any merit.
The wording on this rule is clear.
IC's can join Units.
There are two exceptions, vehicles and units that are always a single model.
The Carnifex, Paladin or even Mordrak and Thawn are not always a single model.
They all can be played as a singleton (or in Thawn's case become one), but they are not always a single model.
Therefore an IC may join them, alone or not.