Why the Dark Eldar can build and deploy 'superheavies'.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Huh, I'd always assumed that Craftworld Eldar equipment was pretty representative of pre-fall eldar military (since Craftworlds are wraithbone vehicles, in a sense, and were made in the fall-era), while the Dark Eldar switched to the stuff they have now due to losing psychic capability (therefore Wraithbone) and being kind of insane (who needs a well armoured/shielded Falcon when you can rocket around in a paper-thin raider?) Don't have anything that concrete to back it up, though.

Well, Craftworld Eldar vehicles are made of wraithbone so they wouldn't work too well, and the implication from the DE codex is their vehicles are closer to pre-fall vehicles.

Iwasn't quite going for "they have exactly the same super-heavies", but that they may have super-heavies of similar build/armament made out've the technology used by the Deldar.

Since both factions have access to similar weaponry (Lance, haywire and plasma tech), it seems plausible that there was some form of pre-fall military lying around - it doesn't seem incredibly sensible that the Imperium has standing armies, since they access to pinpoint orbital bombardment and such. Seems to be one of the fun conceits of the setting.

[eldargal]

Well yes in terms of materials wraithbone would closer to pre-fall materials, but in terms of designs it seems the Craftworlds underwent considerable periods of change. Funnily enough the Dark Eldar are much more 'conservative than the Craftworlders, it is they who hold onto the vision of pre-Fall Eldar civilization even if they're powers are much less than pre-Fall Eldar.

[Anggul]

"the Dark eldar consider the Voidraven to be the ultimate in heavy weapons deployment"



Yes they have bigger things, but that doesn't mean they're for combat. As our main man said, slave barges and such. No doubt they have weapons systems, but I don't think they'd be used for the Dark Eldar lightning warfare.

[Freefall945]

A fine quote, but that simply means that the Dark Eldar do not see any better way to deploy gunboats. It is entirely possible, you might say, that the voidraven is superior to the superheavy hypothetical gunship I am prepared to call the Hellshrike because it is smaller, zippier, and better at bringing its array to bear.

[eldargal]

Freefall is right, all that quote could refer to is the fact that the void raven is the preferred choice for deploying void lances, the heaviest armaments we know the Dark Eldar to possess. It is a considerable leap to say there are no larger combat craft than that.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Well yes in terms of materials wraithbone would closer to pre-fall materials, but in terms of designs it seems the Craftworlds underwent considerable periods of change. Funnily enough the Dark Eldar are much more 'conservative than the Craftworlders, it is they who hold onto the vision of pre-Fall Eldar civilization even if they're powers are much less than pre-Fall Eldar.

Are there any sources on the craftworlds' level of change? (Genuinely curious, not familiar with their fluff beyond their codicies/Imp. Armours.)

The Deldar always struck me as the more "inventive" of the two, since their main transport is derived from non-military designs (my previous assumption was that Falcons were a standard military transport pre-fall, which the deldar could no longer maintain/build.) It seems reasonably clear that the basic tech for Vypers/Venoms and many of the aircraft is sourced from pre-fall stuff, though, since they're a common factor between both factions.

And yeah, agreed that the Voidraven isn't necessarily the biggest, just the favorite. Having 5 Voidravens over 1 bigthing would be preferable, similar to how 5 Stormravens are better than 1 Thunderhawk. Doesn't mean that the big thing wouldn't have its uses, though.

One thought - perhaps the deldar superheavies might incorporate the advanced armourplating/forceshields currently seen only in the Dias of Destruction. Maybe the huge raider would be an AV13 non-fast skimmer, contrasting to the fragile speedster craft zipping around it.

[Archon Charybdis]

Personally I think anything larger than a talos should float like a talos.

I largely agree, though I have to admit I've often considered getting a Brass Scorpion to make an "Erebus Torture Engine." The first time I saw it I thought: "Khorne my ***, that's clearly a DE super heavy." Sleek? Agile-looking? Semi-organic? Tortured slaves plugged in the back to power it? Checks all around.

[url]http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/BRASS-SCORPION.html[/url]

[eldargal]

Well it is complicated. Much of the Craftworld technology is post-Fall, Warp Spiders, Night Spinners and whatnot. And the entire Aspect system. Whereas the Dark Eldar are completely wedded to the idea of maintaining pre-Fall Eldar culture despite it causing the Fall. They do share some common vehicles, as you say, but it is interesting how much moredifferent they are to the Craftworld vehicles than the Dark Eldar.

Are there any sources on the craftworlds' level of change? (Genuinely curious, not familiar with their fluff beyond their codicies/Imp. Armours.)

The Deldar always struck me as the more "inventive" of the two, since their main transport is derived from non-military designs (my previous assumption was that Falcons were a standard military transport pre-fall, which the deldar could no longer maintain/build.) It seems reasonably clear that the basic tech for Vypers/Venoms and many of the aircraft is sourced from pre-fall stuff, though, since they're a common factor between both factions.

And yeah, agreed that the Voidraven isn't necessarily the biggest, just the favorite. Having 5 Voidravens over 1 bigthing would be preferable, similar to how 5 Stormravens are better than 1 Thunderhawk. Doesn't mean that the big thing wouldn't have its uses, though.

One thought - perhaps the deldar superheavies might incorporate the advanced armourplating/forceshields currently seen only in the Dias of Destruction. Maybe the huge raider would be an AV13 non-fast skimmer, contrasting to the fragile speedster craft zipping around it.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I definitly agree with "superheavy" sized Haemonculi constructs. Bigger than the Talos and Chronos. Haemonculi are pretty individualistic so I wouldnt say it is -impossible-. Plenty of potential for some truly sick design and imagery there.

Giant slave-barges were mentioned too - this could be a very fitting and nightmarish vessel if realised - imagine if it was done like a giant floating concentration camp that looked like it was built by Pinhead? the death-screams would be enough to make the most hardened space marine cry I think.

[Old_Paladin]

Isn't this a moot argument? Seeing as the Dark Eldar already deploy superheavy flyers.
[URL="http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/VOID-DRAGON-PHOENIX.html"]VOID-DRAGON-PHOENIX[/URL]

Well... I guess its more that Eldar Corsairs deploy super-heavies; and the Dark Eldar just 'rent' them as needed.


I don't see why this concept bothers some people. The Dark Eldar use starships; why wouldn't they deploy giant death/torture machines?
If you have to suck up 5+ billion souls from an Imperial Hive City; at some point after hunting through the streets for the fun of the chase, it'd just be easier to bring in a 100 foot long version of the Chronos and finish everything off.