blood angels vs grey knights

[DarkLink]

As a GK player, I've always had an easy time dealing with Mephiston. Feed him a sacrificial unit, then counter assault (because even in objective games you should never spread out more than necessary, and even then only at the last minute). Plus, half the time Mephiston's gotten into assault with a full 10 GKSS I've managed to kill him with just them. And if my opponent dedicates a RAS to the assault as well, that's just more easy prey for me. 10 GKT plus a Grand Master with grenades will kill almost anything on the charge.

[Kawauso]

Yup, if you can't make an armour save against it you can't use feel no pain

Not exactly.
FNP is negated by AP1, AP2, anything that would cause ID (i.e. S8 vs. T4), and weapons that ignore armour saves in close combat.

AP3-6 can all have FNP saves taken against them.

[Hive Mind]

You can make armour saves against AP3-6. Nothing has an armour save of 1+ so you can't make armour saves against AP1-2 so you can't take FNP rolls if you can't make an armour save against it.

[plawolf]

Not exactly.
FNP is negated by AP1, AP2, anything that would cause ID (i.e. S8 vs. T4), and weapons that ignore armour saves in close combat.

AP3-6 can all have FNP saves taken against them.

No brainfart on my part originally. Rending wounds will not allow a FNP save as it does not allow an armor save (in shooting or CC) and is even listed as an example of things FNP is not allowed against in the BBB.

[Da Gargoyle]

I am interested to note that in a number of the threads no body has mentioned the assasin options available to GK. In the two GK armies I gamed against the other night, both used a Vindicare Assassin with exitus rifle which seems to allow them to nominate a target and get a higher percentage kill with the rifle. It also has a reasonable option for taking out vehicles and ignoring invulnerable saves. Combined with a Storm raven the first GK army I fought was quite formidable and unbeaten in 3 games for the night. I lost by not killing the Storm Raven contesting an objective.

I would imagine that a specialist BA army would be quite vulnerable to this combination. Lots of ranged shots that could be rerolled and the capacity to deliver a GK dread anywhere on the battle field assault that turn. This may also include assault troops in support of the dread.

[Denied]

I am interested to note that in a number of the threads no body has mentioned the assasin options available to GK. In the two GK armies I gamed against the other night, both used a Vindicare Assassin with exitus rifle which seems to allow them to nominate a target and get a higher percentage kill with the rifle. It also has a reasonable option for taking out vehicles and ignoring invulnerable saves. Combined with a Storm raven the first GK army I fought was quite formidable and unbeaten in 3 games for the night. I lost by not killing the Storm Raven contesting an objective.

I would imagine that a specialist BA army would be quite vulnerable to this combination. Lots of ranged shots that could be rerolled and the capacity to deliver a GK dread anywhere on the battle field assault that turn. This may also include assault troops in support of the dread.

The thing is in the tournament meta the Vindicare is too expensive for an easily killed unit. I have played (using IG) against 3 GK players who took a Vindicare and the assassin was dead before he did anything of use.

Also Storm Ravens tend not to be prominent in GK list because again its too expensive and only AV12 so its not going to last long. In high point games where you can afford to play with like 2-3 SR it is more viable, but if its a choice between another GKSS in a Rhino/ Razorback or a SR I will take the GKSS.

[Bibbums]

thanks for the help

[edde79]

As a GK player, BA is a viable opponent. This is not the case with Vanilla Space Marines at the moment. The best built SM lists will get wrecked by even a semi competent GK list. BA has two really good list structures out there for competitive play and both can do a lot of damage to GK lists, Razorback spam and Storm Raven/ Drop pod assault. Both of these lists are strong in the tournament scene at the moment, and with reason. SR/DP Assault gets in your face and even though GK's are strong in CC, they are nothing when compared to a furioso dread or death company. Razor spam allows you the ability to out range GK Psycannons and a lot of high STR low AP shooting, this means things are going to die, and then you back it up with your assault abilities and mobility and your sitting pretty.

Remember GK's are strong at mid range their entire tactic is to shoot you with a hail of Storm Bolters and Psycannons and then assault softened targets with their I6 halberds (or Death Cult Assassins). It's a hard one two combo if they pull it off, but if you can out range/ maneuver them you will be able to steal charges and avoid a good amount of fire power.

Also as a BA player you have good access to cheaper AV14 vehicles and most of the GK lists that are in the tournament scene have a hard time with multiple AV14 vehicles on the board.

can you post approx list for SR/ DP assault?
Never seen that one...

[Dok]

All PA blood angels is one of the armies I have a tough time beating with my GK. They have the mobility to dictate where combat will take place and the firepower to take down my vehicles and squads with 2 meltas per unit. Devastators are particularly hard to deal with as they will generally have fnp and cannot be killed or suppressed in one **** like most HS vehicles can.