[Necrons] Death Ray number of hits question

[rws]

Hi all! Long time lurker, first time poster, etcetera...

I have a question about the Necron Death Ray, the main weapon of the Doom Scythes.
Without going into too much detail: the Death Ray weapon description says how to draw a line over enemy units. The wording for determining the number of hits on a unit is: "Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line." (Codex: Necrons, page 50. Matthew Ward, 2011. Games Workshop Ltd.)

Ths sentence in ambiguous, since it can mean "the (number of models in the unit) underneath the line" or "the number of models in the (unit underneath the line)". In other words, in respective order: "That unit of Fire Warriors has three models underneath the line, so I score three hits" or "That unit of Fire Warriors has models underneath the line, has twelve models in total, so I score twelve hits". We could argue about word-usage, intention, and the writing qualities of Ward all day long, but logically this sentence is ambiguous/

My question, therefore, is: What do you think?

[Necron_Lord]

The wording means exactly what it says. You pick a point 12" from the death ray on the Doom Scythe (starting point) and then roll 3d6. You then can make a line with an end point 3d6" away from your starting point. Every unit takes as many hits as it has models under the line (no rolls are made to hit using this weapon). You then have to roll to wound or make armor penetration rolls as necessary. Wounds can then be allocated by the owning player. Basically the model which is under the line isn't necessarily the one which is hit unless its unit size was one.

[Tynskel]

just to make sure I get it:

if you draw your line and you hit one model *each* in 15 units: each unit is hit 15 times?

[rws]

No, that is only one way to read the rule. It all depends on the range of the word "underneath" in "number of models in the unit underneath the line."
It could mean: the number of models underneath the line, belonging to that unit; or it could mean: the number of models belonging to the unit, that is underneath the line. Try not letting what you want to read confuse you.

Off course it is intended to mean the first interpretation, as you state, but it doesn't say so definitely. There is a wide scope interpretation, and a small scope interpretation, and the text doesn't clarify which interpretation to use. That was my whole point in the first place. it probably means we'll have to wait for the FAQ.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't make any sense: I'm a Dutch student, and while I am a fluent reader of the English language (I read English faster than Dutch nowadays), I'm much less able to form my thoughts into the right words.

@Tynskel: no, if fifteen different units have one model underneath the line, each unit is hit as many times as it has models (so fifteen five-man squads are all hit five times). And that is the narrow-scope interpretation, yes.

[danny2460]

Yes we had this in our local store today too we came to the conclusion its missing a comma, meaning it should read .......................... every unit underneath the line suffers a number of hits(,) equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line .

meaning that if you hit 3 units of 10 models but the line only goes over 1 model in each unit each unit only suffers one hit not 30 or 3 each unit.

the hits are only equal to the models (that have the line over) in THAT unit

[MaltonNecromancer]

This seems perfectly clear.

1.) Draw a line.
2.) See what units are hit.
3.) "Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line." So, if unit alpha has five models, it suffers five hits. If unit beta has eight models, it suffers eight hits. If unit gamma of six friendly Necrons is hit, it suffers six hits.

How is this ambiguous? I get the feeling you want this to be "Every model under the line is hit", but it doesn't say that at all. It's not remotely ambiguous. "Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

So, to take your example:

"That unit of Fire Warriors has models underneath the line, has twelve models in total, so I score twelve hits"

Yes. Yes it does. The wording doesn't say "models under the line are hit", it says "every unit suffers hits equal to the number of models in the unit". Now, unit is an unambiguous phrase denoting squad, mob, brood, etc... "Model" is as unambiguous as it gets. Where is the confusion?!

I think you're looking for ambiguity where there is none, based largely on the fact that this weapon has no parallel in any other army, and the only ones that do work by only hitting the models the line touches. The Death Ray isn't Jaws of the World Wolf, and it seems perfectly simple.

If the Death Ray line hits a unit of ten models, roll for wounds ten times. Even if only one guy is touched.

Yes, it seems quite powerful. But so are Grey Knights. And Dark Eldar. And pretty much every 5th edition Codex.

[addamsfamily36]

I thought this rule was pretty simple.

say you have 3 units

Unit A, Unit B and Unit C.

You put your start point up to 12 inches away from the doom sycthe and draw a 3d6 line across (as far as the line will go) the three units. any models underneath that line, generate hits much in the way a flamer template only hits models it covers, this line only generates hits from models that fall directly underneath that line.

so say Unit A had 10 models and the line clipped 3, Unit B had 5 models and clipped 2 and Unit C had 6 models and clipped 3, Unit A would take 3 hits, Unit B 2 hits and Unit C 3 hits, distributed as per normal shooting.

[addamsfamily36]

This seems perfectly clear.

1.) Draw a line.
2.) See what units are hit.
3.) "Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line." So, if unit of marines alpha has five models, it suffers five hits. If unit beta of marines has eight models, it suffers eight hits. If unit gamma of six friendly Necrons is hit, it suffers six hits.

How is this ambiguous? I get the feeling you want this to be "Every model under the line is hit", but it doesn't say that at all. It's not remotely ambiguous. "Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

So, to take your example:

"That unit of Fire Warriors has models underneath the line, has twelve models in total, so I score twelve hits"

Yes. Yes it does. The wording doesn't say "models under the line are hit", it says "every unit", which is an unambiguous phrase denoting squad, mob, brood, etc...

I think you're looking for ambiguity where there is none, based largely on the fact that this weapon has no parallel in any other army, and the only ones that do work by only hitting the models the line touches. The Death Ray isn't Jaws of the World Wolf, and it seems perfectly simple.

If the Death Ray line hits a unit of ten models, roll for wounds ten times. Even if only one guy is touched.

Yes, it seems quite powerful. But so are Grey Knights. And Dark Eldar. And pretty much every 5th edition Codex.
MaltonNecromancer is online now Report Post Reply With Quote

this is completely wrong

[dannyat2460]

MaltonNecromancer your description would be perfectly fine if it didnt say underneath the line at the end.

Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit.

explains better what you are saying the rule means than

Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.

but like i said earlier if you insert a comma the sentance makes perfect sence

Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits(,) equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line.

[addamsfamily36]

Once your unit has been hit by the line, you take a number of hits equal to the amount of models in that unit that are underneath that line, not every model in the unit is hit. otherwise why wouldn't it just state, every model in the unit hit by the line is hit.