11-11-2011, 11:51 AM #1
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- May 2011
The Lost Primarchs; A Speculation.
So all the primarchs we currently know of are themed (and apparently have a 'wyrd' which names their theme, but this might just be the way that Fenrisian culture describes them rather than being the galactic hard-and-fast rule).
Anyway, they are all also supposed to be different reflections of the Emperor and his abilities/characteristics/personality.
So whats missing? We have a few different ideas on militant marshals, (Guilleman, Horus, Johnson, Sanguinius), Seige makers/breakers (Dorn, Perturabo), Psychic man (Magnus), Barbarian types (Russ the executioner/ Angron the, well angry), Mechanical/creative mans (Manus and Vulcan), Intelligence sneaky mans (Alpharius/Omegon), perfection man (Fulgrim), Batman (Night Haunter), fantaic-man (Lorger), wild riding fast hunting man (Khan) and sneaky shadow fast hunting man (Corax).
So, whats missing? What would make a good wyrd/theme for the other two that are missing. That is more interesting than "The one that got lost" and "The one that's busy doing other things".
11-11-2011, 12:24 PM #2
I may have read it wrong but the outcast dead gave me the impression the wolves had already been used to deal with a badly behaved overly psychic legion at least once before...
Illegitimi non carborundum
11-17-2011, 03:29 AM #3
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- Mar 2011
If you think of it this way: Basically each primarch has a counter to itself. Not in the meaning of someone who could beat him (rock-paper-scissors), but more like a balancing character (like ying & yang)
- For excample Russ vs Angron are both heavy brawlers. Sort of wild and untamed berserkers, yet, with completely different motivators. Other is that for the purpose of build, other is berserker just for the fun of it / lust for it (atleast thats how he is described. Personally i haven't read anywhere that he would have had a role similar to Russ in mind when he was being crafted)
Primarchs that could be possibly paired:
Fulgrim & Sanquinius (Both pretty boys excelling at swordplay, yet a bit far fetched match perhaps)
Konrad Kurze & Corax (Both sneaky heavy hitters, with both having heavy reference to flying creatures: Bat and Raven)
Now, from the list missing counters are:
Magnus: Loyal, yet stubborn and arrogant Mega-psyker (that was the reason for his fall)
Fulgrim: Art,culture,music etc civilised trait lover. Also always aimed for perfection
Lorgar: Interested in truth (same trait as emperor - to know as much as possible), obsessed in eliminating all blasphemy
Khan: Yet fast and furious, one of the most notable traits is the emperor passionate dream to unite all the stars in one mighty empire
So, that leaves Magnus, Lorgar, possibly Fulgrim and Khan. It would seem improper to 'change the pattern' of creation motives for primarchs and their roles. Apparently there are still four candidates, where there should be only two.
How would you pair those primarchs without proper pairing, or how would you pair the whole lot of them?
11-17-2011, 06:48 PM #4More Necromunda please.
11-17-2011, 10:45 PM #5
Well, since it would be a good wager that the Emperor was a thinking man it wouldn't to far fetched to propose that one of the missing Primarchs caught a terminal case of Philosophy.
11-18-2011, 08:30 PM #6
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- May 2011
So here is a plausible thought;
One of the missing legions was Psychic and had a philosophical theme. Maybe dealt with morality?? This would have an overlap into theology (on the philosophy and morality topics) which would piss off the word bearers. Its the intellectual faith that's missing from the Imperium (we have plenty of fanatics). So maybe the word bearers engineer it so that they get wiped off the face of the galaxy. Or maybe they think about what they are doing with humanities great crusade/enforced aetheistic pogrom and dont like it. Or maybe they work out how the Emperor can become a god?
And maybe the other is an alien sympathizer/ dominator, something humananity has the potential for but its outlawed.
A psychic philosopher would pair with Magnus. A Theologan would pair with Lorgor.
Pairing I would go with;
Angron and Russ As barbarians, russ with more cunning, maybe making Angron a mass-butcher whilst russ is more one on one executioner
Perturabo and Rogal Dorn as seigemasters (slightly attack and defence respectively)
Ferrus Manus and Vulkan as forgemasters
Horus and Guilleman as leaders
Corax and Night Haunter as stealthy night fighters- Corax the rebel who has overthrown tyrannies ad Night Haunter like a tyrannical batman.
Magnus and the psychic legion killed by the wolves (as psykers)
Maybe Khan and Alpharius- both as scouts and hit-and-run types.
Maybe Johnson and Mortarion- both brilliant strategists especially in defence (on their separate planet against beasts and undead warlords), maybe they are the regular fighters- one slightly more for attack and the other for defence, much like perturabo and dorn.
Which leaves Lorgor with the other deleted primarch.
08-30-2012, 03:51 AM #7
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I was thinking that the 2 missing legions were killed because of a combination of both genetic mutation/ deviation and the rebellion of their primarch from the Emperor's goals or rules. The reason why the Thousand sons were later attacked by the Space Wolves.
One of the missing Legions could have had a genetic flaw that made their organs and limbs slowly turn into living metal over time. When they encountered the first Necrons emerging from hibernation, they mistook them for lost kin, or were enthralled by the similarities they shared with them. They refused to destroy the Necrons, and some were converted. The Emperor sent a force in to destroy the Necrons, and the missing Legion sided against the Imperial forces - and lost.
I think the rumour about the Ultramarines number expanding due to them absorbing another legions forces is a flawed theory. The lost legions genetic flaws would have made them too much of a risk for the Emperor to allow any of them to survive. Guilliman would have refused to take any flawed gene seed into his legion.
I worked out that the 2 lost legions were destroyed due to their genetic flaws making them uncontrollable. It hints at it in the first chapter of the newest Horus Heresy novel "Fear to Tread". If Magnus could get the Emperor to keep his last 1000 or so Marines alive because they had not yet succumbed to the Flesh Change. If the Emperor could ignore the curse of the Wulfen that the Space Wolves had as their genetic flaw, or that he also ignored Sanguinius Blood Angels "Red Thirst" vampiric blood lust genetic flaw. How bad would the genetic flaws of the 2 lost legions have been?The world is Chaotic, so why not join the party. Slaanesh welcomes you with open arms. Certa Cito
08-30-2012, 03:54 AM #8
If the flaw was doctrine rather than mutation though there wouldn't be an issue, bit of hypnoconditioning, everythings fixed, one less legion, and primach.
Illegitimi non carborundum
08-30-2012, 08:58 AM #9
Secondly, them being destroyed outright is not conclusive. First Heretic makes clear that the Ultramarines DID get a sudden massive influx of new recruits around the time of the 'disappearance'. That part is not a theory. Whether they were from the missing legions is speculation by the Word Bearers characters. Secondly, Lorgar is deeply upset by the 'disappearance'. If this were due to such extreme genetic insatiability that they had to be destroyed, he wouldn't be so cut up about, it would be a necessity. Everything they put in the books is just hints to keep us guessing, nothing is hard and fast.
On a related point, check out this little teaser.
Chief Educator of the Horsemen of Derailment "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought, which they avoid." SOREN KIERKEGAARD
08-30-2012, 09:02 AM #10
Ohhh, where is the picture from?
I like Thornblood's idea of pairs, though his list is missing a couple (even without the two)Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni