Are Sweep Attacks CC Attacks?

[memnarch_129]

This question came up in a game at my local FLGS and just wanted to get everybodys opinion on it. The Sweep Attacks of the Catacomb Command Barge use the riders strength and weapon special abilities but it doesnt say anywhere specifically that these are or are not close combat attacks. Now this came up because of Grey Knight weapons (such as the sword or the Warding Stave). Would an individual that has a close combat save (such as the improved saves from Grey Knight weapons or the Wyches 4+ dodge) be able to use these against the Sweep Attacks of the Catacomb Command Barge.

[Tynskel]

Yes. U are using a CC weapon to cause damage.

[SotonShades]

I would say no. Otherwise you would be able to use those saves against things like the DE Jetbiker's Caltrops and the like. Although logically it is a close combat weapon, using the weilder's strength and the weapon's rules, it is an attack made in the movement phase, not the assault phase. As I understand it (without the new codex to hand) the Overlord can then proceed to shoot and assault other units in hand to hand combat. The attacks aren't made in the Close Combat phase, so the combat phase specific saves can't be taken against it.

[DrLove42]

I have to say its not CC as well, but for different reasons

Firstly its just the wrong phase. Its done in the movement phase, not the assault phase. Therefore not assault!

2) Httting. Unless i'm mistaken you hit on a fixed value. This doesn't change, unlike what it would in assault (ie WS differences, stationairy vehicles hit automatically)

3) If it were assault the other guys would get to attack back. They don't

Trust me, it makes sense for thing like Wyches to be able to use their save to get out of the way of things (its not an armour save after all, its fast reflexes to dodge an attack). But I don't think you can

[gcsmith]

No it is not combat attacks since for one the character doesnt mate the usual number of attacks, nor does it say its combat. Its damage done in moving phase that is all.

[Wildeybeast]

The Sweep Attacks of the Catacomb Command Barge use the riders strength and weapon special abilities but it doesnt say anywhere specifically that these are or are not close combat attacks.

Actaully it does, quite clearly in fact. "he can make three special 'sweep' attacks each turn".
It is a unique attack, made in the movement phase, which means any saves/abilities/wargear which specify that they are used against close combat attacks (rather than attakcs in general) are of no use here. Fairly straightforward really.

[MaltonNecromancer]

I'd have to say no as well. They're like the Dark Eldar jetbikey attack thing whose name escapes me.

It's not in the assault phase, it's a different hit.

Fluffwise, basically, yes, it's the Necron Lord doing a close combat attack, but he's just so damn fast on his little Mekon hoverplatform, that you can't get your block in time.

Or somesuch.

[Tynskel]

I don't understand where you guys come up with 'no'.

The rules specifically state these attacks use the close combat weapons on the IC. These ARE CC attacks.

[thecactusman17]

Close combat weapon, yes. But they are also specifically named as "special" attacks. It sounds like GW is specifically saying that these are not close combat attacks, but that their effects are those of your equipped close combat weapon. In fact, that is exactly what it says: "these attacks hit at the characters strength, plus any strength bonuses and special abilities from his close combat weapon." Now we are DEFINITELY not talking about close combat attacks, we have a whole sentence devoted to explaining how these attacks are carried out instead of a simple "attack as though making a close combat attack."

Further, note that the CCB is incapable of engaging and locking into CC. It has no WS, nor does the Lord get to strike back if it is charged.

Further, note that this prevents Trayzyn the Infinite from using his Empathic Obliterator to sweep an Ork mob off the board, as his attacks must be made in Close Combat in order for the ability to go off.

[Tynskel]

ah, but they are still attacks.

you only make attacks in CC.

you shoot guns, and you make CC attacks.


The phase they occur in doesn't really matter, because the main rulebook has instances where you can take wounds in ANY phase.