Are Sweep Attacks CC Attacks?

[MaxKool]

1)You take wounds, in the shooting phase.
2) you can take any "normal" save IR armor save or inv

You don't get to take any improved save from special cc weapons or a WYCH dodge save as for thosE to work u use them in the assault phase.

This is just like the sweep attacks of the de, u can always take normal saves but wouldn't be able to use a dodge save or the improved gk weapon saves as those are used in a different phase.
This is why occasionally they FAQ as to what phase some attacks take place in, so that u can determine what defensive options u have.....

[Wildcard]

In my opinion the "Special" part of the attacks are that:
-Those are made in movement phase
-Those don't take WS into account
- Attacks come from a unit with no WS value

YET

They come from a melee weapon with zero range (i.e you have to fly over the unit, not 2" near it)

I am having a hard time justifying that gk wouln't get their +1 to the invu saves just because these attacks didn't come in assault phase.

Also, close combat attacks always hit vehicles on the rear armor, just like these attacks, regardless of the true facing the 'barge moves over'...

This is just like the sweep attacks of the de, u can always take normal saves but wouldn't be able to use a dodge save or the improved gk weapon saves as those are used in a different phase.

FYI "The Nemesis force sword increases the bearer's invulnerable save by +1 against close combat attacks..."

There is no mention of it working only in certain phase

[MaxKool]

They are cc attacks in name for Sure , let's go over some thing to try and come to a semi logical results

This is called a special cc attack but dosnt happen in the cc phase. The unit being attacked in no way interacts with the attacker. It is a fixed to hit number. The only thing about cc in this attack is that it uses the speci rules of the wep used by the lord.

This attack is special and in this, does not follow the normal rules for 40k. IE causing cc wounds in the movement phase. We have all the rules for doing this special action. All this wargear is designed to be used in cc. This is not normal cc it is special covered by its own rules. If not stated to count as cc wounds then no gear that grants a benefit to cc saves would apply. As the scope of the wargear is not included in this "special" rules for this "special" attack.
It is not just a cc attack, it is a SPECIAL cc attack. Not following the normal rulebook as normally cc attacks don't happen in the movement phase.

I will look in my all my codex at home and see if I can find another time when cc type wounds are caused out of phase and if it males sence there to have the cc saves...


As if gk need anymore advantages... I hate that army and book.
Used to like it, abhor it now....

[memnarch_129]

Wildcard is correct that the Grey Knight weapon saves do not specify what phase they can be used in. what the Sweep Attacks boil down to is whether they are CC attacks or not. I never imagined my little question would end up a two page discussion over the CCBs Sweep Attacks.

[thecactusman17]

tynskel, that is not true. Close combat attacks and shooing attacks are specific types of attacks that occur in the shooting and assault phases. Some models can make attacks outside of those two phases, but that does not make the attacks shouting our cc unless stated as such. Look at dark eldar envenomed blades, for example. Those wounds occur in the assault phase but are specifically called out as being distributed like shooting. In the case of the ccb, we are talking about a model that cannot engage in assault. It has no WS at all. The barge is making the attacks here so far as game mechanics are concerned, using that stats and gear of the passenger, not the other way around

[Wildcard]

@memnarch: Well, my post about the phase was towards MaxKools claim about gk weapons used in different phase.

As for your original question:

This may not be clearly stated anywhere, but as far as i have understood it, assault phase and close combat are different things (there is no close combat phase in the game).

I would say that all models that get bonuses in close combat get the benefits they have, be that gk's improved invulnerable save, dark eldar dodge and what ever else there might be in other codexes.

Grenades and other stuff that is specifically stated to only work in assault phase (or the turn someone begins his assault) will not work against (s)weeping strikes

--
I dont get where people get that if attack has "special" word it ignores/bypasses all the benefits from the 'defending units' rules and wargear??
There are already special type of shooting and close combat attacks in the game, and although i agree that in those cases, bonuses, restrictions, usage etc etc are clearly pointed out (as well as if it actually is shooting or close combat attack).

Unless this is ruled by FAQ as silly as the GK pair of falchions were (just the opposite direction) i just cant see how these attacks wouldn't be considered as CC attacks (although special ones).


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My Guardsmen have holy Terra-pattern lasguns with the following profile: 24" Sx APx Rapid Fire, Special
They auto cause wounds just by pointing them at things, and rip open landraiders with only by mere scratch from the bayonets. Oh boy, are these guns something Special

/Edit
@memnarch: never mind the first line, read it wrong like you were pointing it out on me... Should probably go to bed already, cos its getting late
/Edit

[AbusePuppy]

Although they are resolved in a not-dissimilar manner to CC attacks and are made using the stats from a CC weapon, they are not close combat attacks. (Contrast the wording of the Barge's ability with the Ork Boarding Plank upgrade, which is a close combat attack.) Like the Reaver Jetbike's special flyby attack, it is neither shooting nor close combat, being instead a special attack outside of the normal sequence.

[Angelofblades]

If a barge were to perform a sweeping attack on a vehicle. What would you be hitting at?

[thecactusman17]

Angel, I'd argue that your attack is occurring at whatever point you first interacted the vehicle at. If you want to hit rear, your dude can hop out. It is an open topped vehicle after all.

[Tynskel]

This is totally a close combat attack----

1) look at CC attacks against vehicles--- to hit is based upon speed. Now, why can't this be the reverse?

2) The weapon that is doing the attacks is a CC weapon.

They are 'special' because they are not in the Assault Phase... but, by no means, does make them any less a CC attack.