Scarab bases Vs. Force Weapons

[deadshane]

10 Scarab bases assault a unit of grey knights.

Grey Knights attack first.

4 wounds are inflicted.

Scarabs fail their saves. (no invuln=failed save)

Force weapons activated.

....................

What are the CC results?

One dead scarab base due to wounds and another due to instant death?

OR

Four dead Scarab bases, all instant death'd?

[Tynskel]

Instant death!

If each base took a wound, failed their save, and then are subject to instant death, then each base is dead.

[Tynskel]

Another example would be hammer hand cast twice: each grey knight is now str6. Each base would be subject to instant death from double toughness.

[The Twilight Fade]

The way i've always understood this is scarabs can't be armed differently so you would allocate 3 wounds to one base killing it and then the excess onto the second scarab causing a single wound, which of course then will get ID'd due to force weapons

Since they can't be armed differently I think you allocate it as above where as if they were all armed different 4 different bases would get ID'd with the current allocation rules.

I may be wrong on this but thats how I've always played it with Nid warriors Vs GK's as they can't be armed differently either

[deadshane]

I have a friend telling me that he gets to allocate his wounds to the scarabs b4 I get to activate the instant death.

essentailly, he's saying that force weapons do not activate until after wounds are allocated.

seemed sheisty to me.

[The Twilight Fade]

But in Tynskels second example it would be a different scenario as the double toughness wounds are caused first rather than the wounds being caused and then force weapons activating

[AbusePuppy]

Nemesis Force Weapons wielded by squads of Grey Knights work different from Force Weapons held by a character (either GK or others.) NFW in squads are activated during a phase and make ALL the wounds from the unit Instant Death, which means each of them must remove a different, unwounded member of the squad (if possible.)

Force Weapons wielded by a character, on the other hand, are activated AFTER a wound is caused and retroactively turn it into an Instant Death wound.

So if, say, a Librarian causes three wounds to Scarabs, all three wounds would be allocated to one model, which he could then (pointlessly) activate his FW to kill. However, a squad that causes three wounds would instead kill three bases, assuming their NFW were active.

[Anggul]

I think your friend is right. If you're causing instant-death already, you have to remove whole models, but force weapons allocate wounds first, then you roll to see if they cause instant-death.

[deadshane]

actually, the rule states that after the model fails a save (in this case lack of a save = failed save) you make your psychic check.

I see nothing in the rulebook stating that you would remove models before the psychic check is made.

[The Twilight Fade]

I think your friend is right. If you're causing instant-death already, you have to remove whole models, but force weapons allocate wounds first, then you roll to see if they cause instant-death.

This is the way i've always played it aswell, since they aren't armed differently you would deal 3 wounds to a single scarab, a single wound to the other scarab and wouldn't be dealing a single wound to 4 different scarabs, just wiping one out and wounding another.

Either that or i've been screwing my GK friend over because Nid warriors operate under similar circumstances