Storm Shield vs Necron Phase Shifter

[Maelstorm]

Storm Shield = 25 points
Phase Shifter = 45 points

Each one provides a 3+ Invulnerable Save

Question: Why the points disparity?

[Gir]

Stormshield forces you to give up a weapon.

[The Twilight Fade]

Going head to head on points cost is not the best way of comparing them.

Necron Lords/Overlords are toughness 5 where as most things in the marine codices are only T4 coupled with the fact that the models that can take a phase shifter have the ever-living rule aswell

They have a chance to use it again even after they've "died" so the costing seems rather appropriate I think

[Denzark]

Points costs traditionally reflected availability of any given piece of equipment to that race or organisation.

[Necron_Lord]

Alright, I'll bite.

Storm shield is for Space Marines, so they can get a price discount on certain items to keep the largest player base in the game happy by getting a crutch.

Whew, I feel better now.

[Tynskel]

Alright, I'll bite.

Storm shield is for Space Marines, so they can get a price discount on certain items to keep the largest player base in the game happy by getting a crutch.

Whew, I feel better now.

Bwahahaha!

[MaltonNecromancer]

Because the comparison is not appropriate?

Necrons aren't Space Marines. Space Marines aren't Necrons. The two armies operate in completely different ways, and thus the items are costed differently! It's not a difficult concept, and it's the reason that things like Vehicle Design Rules just don't work. Making the assumption that because an item confers ability X means it should be available at the same cost to all armies is an obvious logical fallacy.

Most things in the Necron army that can get the 3++ offer significantly higher unit synergies than their Marine equivelant. Thus, the cost reflects the fact you're not just keeping them safe: you're also keeping a significant army resource (like say, a Resurrection Orb) safe as well.

By way of comparison, consider the Sanguinary Priest vs the Paladin Apothecary. The priest upgrades a squad to FNP for around 65pts-ish, give or take equipment. The Paladin Apothecary does the same thing, only for an additional 60pts. This is because giving FNP to Paladins is significantly more powerful than giving it to a generic Tactical Squad. The costs are different to reflect the difference in value to the relative armies.

The high cost of the Paladin Apothecary also reflects the GK's lack of FNP as a game resource; it's a significantly rare advantage, and more desirable to them due to their lack of Storm Shields.

For a real life comparison, consider: which would you prefer - thirty litres of bottled water and a GPS phone, or £200,000,000 in bank notes? If you're in a civilised country, you'd take the money. If you're marooned in the desert and take the money, then the guy who shows up with thirty litres of water and a GPS phone gets to keep both your £200,000,000 and your watch. Make the wrong choice, and regret it. It's the same principle at work in game design (though less dramatic, obvously).

Different tactical advantages should always be costed appropriate to the army they are designed for. When that succeeds, we have a good Codex. When it fails, people cry "undercosted!" or "overcosted!", followed by that perennial favourite "codex creep!" Simply pricing everything with a "one size fits all" mentality would be terrible game design.

So that's why.

[WereWolf_nr]

So that's why.

BOLS needs a "Like" button in the forums.

[Maelstorm]

No soapbox - just a few random thoughts from a statistical engineer.

On the way to a balanced codex system - point costs for the same items between codex's should be more similar, with unit abilities and specializations accounting for different point levels.

Basic 40k character generation cookbook formula for all 40k Codex's might look like:

Basic unit skill stat line cost = 10 points
+x cost for each +1 in basic armour, ie. 3+ save adds 3 points to the basic cost
+x cost for each increase in stat line
+x cost for x ability (ie. Jump/FNP/WBB/RP/Fleet)

With a basic Unit/Vehicle cookbook the authors could quickly design the foundation for all units and vehicles in any codex - they could be wildly different, yet still balanced in cost.

Weapons should follow a similar cookbook style for cost:
Basic Space Marine Bolter Cost = x
Change in AP cost = X
Change in Strength cost = x
Change in range cost = x

Specializations for each codex could then be designed to tune a codex towards Assault, Long Range, Mid Range or Mixed combat.

Currently the point cost for everything across all codex's seems completely dependant on the Author and not a balanced formula.

With a few cookbooks they could tune-up all of the codex's to 6th edition in one shot - without having to rewrite any fluff or retool any dies.

[Xas]

you are all missing the point...

the only 3wound SM modell with stormshield upgrade is the captain/grandmaster. and he allready starts with a 4++. a necron lord doesnt have any invul to begin.

the other marine with acces to it are either 1W or 2W.

its pretty simple that an item would be mroe costly on a more sturdy modell.