Apoc V.2 - cynical marketing or giving us what we want?

[Denzark]

I am quite happy with Apoc 2. I like the new forgeworld toys and the backing to put them on 40K tables. However, some of them are so good as to be serious game changers.

Looking at the Marines, I give you the Assault Ram (Ten Terminators assaulting out of a fast skimmer?) The Lucius Drop Pod (Bjorn or your favourite Death Dread first turn assaulting?) and also the Land Raider Monolith, aka Achilles.

Now I know that there are debates about point, capabilities, amount of transport etc. Personally i like them, and yes some of it is pure fluff. But, it now occurs to me more heavily than before that real life economy plays a part in the game - as these resiny goodnesses cost beaucoup dollar.

I view this as a luxury which I can afford so don't biatch about prices - when it becoems too much I will vote with my feet.

But i wonder if anyone thinks this is all about marketing, or a way to get more cool stuff into our armies, after all, variety is the spice etc?

Your thoughts please?

[DrLove42]

Theres one or two things that are a bit bent, the worst of which you've already mentioned.

But as long as your opponent is informed they should be able to plan around it.

Al lot of whats in there is either apoc only (so crazy OTT broken sh** is expected - aka the Phantom Titan ) or is very reasonably balenced for 40k.

For your example...the Achilles for instance is agonisingly expensive. But it can't carry passengers. it is in effect a 300pt+ point sink that is hard to kill, but can't do too much.

[eldargal]

Well its FW, they have these issues. I don't think it so much about selling shiny new kits than it is about giving great models great rules.

My group is actually considering restricting the deployment of assault rams, not so much because they overpowered but because it seems ridiculous deploying a ship used for ship boarding parties to a regular battle against foot-based armies or a mech Eldar/Dark Eldar. What the heck is your assault ram going to ram?

[SotonShades]

For the most part, it feels more like bringing some of the older units not covered in Apoc/Reload more in to line with the current GW version of Apoc, with a nice sprinkling of new toys. Sure there are a few over powered Apoc Only bits, which I think is great personnally, but everything marked for regular 40k games feels pretty tight to me. Like Eldargirl said, it's very easy to houserule on stuff like the Assault Ram; how you do that will depend on your group and how you want to play. Those who want to play an uber competitive game can tighten the screws and not let you play this book, but I feel they'd be missing out on tactical challanges that tweak armies rather than changing them, rather than trying to force balance using the standard Codicies (which we all know are far from perfectly balanced anyway).

New rules and new toys good. Yes some of it is to help sell more of said toys, but it is FW. Most of us who buy those models will do so whether they have sweet rules or not simply because "Oh look at the awesome!" I know that is why I have a Minotaur, and that thing is pathetic!

[AbusePuppy]

My group is actually considering restricting the deployment of assault rams, not so much because they overpowered but because it seems ridiculous deploying a ship used for ship boarding parties to a regular battle against foot-based armies or a mech Eldar/Dark Eldar. What the heck is your assault ram going to ram?

By this same logic, shouldn't Terminators (which are most often used in deep-space boarding actions) be banned? And Vindicators banned when you aren't playing on ruin-heavy boards? Etc?

If you don't like something from FW it's fine to ask your opponent not to use it, but banning something because the fluff doesn't fit seems rather silly.

[Cherub]

Well its FW, they have these issues. I don't think it so much about selling shiny new kits than it is about giving great models great rules.

My group is actually considering restricting the deployment of assault rams, not so much because they overpowered but because it seems ridiculous deploying a ship used for ship boarding parties to a regular battle against foot-based armies or a mech Eldar/Dark Eldar. What the heck is your assault ram going to ram?

All they have to say is all our thunderhawks are busy and its all we have atm, and our stormravens are still with the BA and GK's

[Lane]

What the heck is your assault ram going to ram?

Maybe they are assaulting a Craftworld and they rammed a bit further than expected.

I wonder how many armies will have assault rams that look like Storm Ravens.

[Gir]

None of that matters in Australia, where Forgeworld toys are cheaper then off the shelf plastic kits.

[eldargal]

That isn't logic, that is silliness. Yes terminator armour is used for that but there is also much more fluff about them spearheading attacks on the field and whatnot. Unlike the Assault Ram which is a single purpose vehicle for ramming.

You will note I never said 'ban', I said restrict its use. It will be fine in Apocalypse, Planetstrike and Ciies of Death (could see it smashing through buildings) but if the game features nothing that warrants a boarding vessal then it won't be used. We are big into narrative games and campaigns so there will be plenty of opportunities to use it, people just won't be able to turn up with a fast skimmer designed to baord space full of terminators to games where it makes no sense for it to be deployed.

By this same logic, shouldn't Terminators (which are most often used in deep-space boarding actions) be banned? And Vindicators banned when you aren't playing on ruin-heavy boards? Etc?

If you don't like something from FW it's fine to ask your opponent not to use it, but banning something because the fluff doesn't fit seems rather silly.

[Legoklods]

None of that matters in Australia, where Forgeworld toys are cheaper then off the shelf plastic kits.

Is that because the shelf plastics are much more expensive in Australia, or because FW is alot cheaper down under??