1,850 Necrons vs Eldar

[plawolf]

Scarabs are nuking our local GK lists, BA lists and Vanilla Lists. Note: Vehicles with flame template weapons (Land Raiders, Baal Predators) are not getting a single shot off. Baal Predator Scout moves bring them closer to the scarabs, woohoo! Pie plate template weapons are shootng in the dark - parked as far away from the front line as possible to save their thin hides.

Against Sunday's Imperial Guard Leafblower list it was over at the end of turn 3, ZERO vehicles survived. The 2 Vendettas that moved flat out were assaulted from 19-24" and immobilized. Lightning accounted for 1 additional Vendetta and 2 vehicles in 3 turns. The rest were eaten by Scarabs. Casteling-up a pile of vehicles in an attempt to save them just makes for a parking lot of burning wrecks the inside vehicles cannot escape.

Scarab casualties do happen quickly but it is a war of attrition that the Necron commander accepts, all the while cranking out more bases every turn. All of the opponents firepower and CC power is directed at stopping the scarabs - not much is hitting the 40 Troops and Monolith(s) rolling forward into range.

Multi-assulting a vehicle and a troop unit at the same time is strategic fun. Pop a vehicle (or two) and prevent point blank return shots from hitting the scarabs the next turn.

Once the GK/BA/IG/SW armies reset and begin to take a more balanced approach, things will be different. But as long as they keep their heads buried in the sand and try to take their favorite internet spam turnament list, they are easy kills. The EASY button imperial army spam commanders will have to learn to list build and think - a very healthy thing for the game.

I'm playing in a tournament in 2 weeks with a Necron list similar to this. The results will speak for themselves.

@ plawolf: You haven't read the Codex. A Monolith cannot pull troops out of combat anymore, that special ability is limited to 1 Character HQ unit.

Note: To a scarab, Vindicare Assasins taste like chicken

Oh dear, I can appreciate you being excited about your new wonder list, but a little modesty and composure surely wouldn't hurt.

And FYI, I have read the Codex, but since I do not play necrons, I did not bother to try and remember it all by heart, just as I doubt you know everything about every other codex out there by heart. And if monoliths can't pull your guys out of CC anymore, your list just got a whole lot more vulnerable if the enemy managed to survive your alpha strike with enough forces.

I see you have completely ignored my questions in terms of how you intent to deal with your typical foot slogging GK list. Is it still only your opponents who are burying their heads in the sand?

I just wonder how long it will be before the IG players in your area realize that against scarab swarm lists, having their troopers get out of their transports and bubble wrap them is better than sitting inside them. If his troopers can tarpit your scarabs until night fighting ends and his big guns get to come into play, it will be a very different game.

I also cannot help but wonder just how much of these initial successes are down to the inherent strength of the list compared to the surprise element of having so many scarabs in their faces so early in the game.

Once people know what to expect, they will be deploying and playing differently. It would be more telling if you can maintain your success rate against players who have a better idea of what the new necrons can and can't do.

There are lists that are strong enough that others will have to tweak their lists to compensate, and there are lists that can be countered with different tactics alone.

If all you are doing is springing the same surprise on different people, you are not testing just how well your list will perform against an opponent ready for it, or in cases where you don't roll amazingly with night fighting and lightenings.

Surely it is better to test these things out now and have a plan B in place instead of being forced to come up with one on the spot during a tournament match when your scarabs don't get a spectacular multi-charge off and take out most of his army before they get to do anything, and/or your scarabs runs into a list and the kill them off far faster than your spiders can pump out re-enforcements.

If you are serious about play testing a list to refine it and make the best list you can, you need to take a scientific approach and try to test it to it's limits to find out what they are, and how you can address them.

Forgive me if I have gotten the wrong impression, but from what you have been writing so far, it just seems you have been more interested in beating up unsuspecting opponents and basking in the glory.

You have come up with an interesting and potentially game changing build. But unless you ask yourself the hard questions and test it in worst-case-scenario cases, you are wasting opportunities both to find ways to better refine the list and to develop tactics for when the die gods decide to go against you.

[Brymm]

I got the room and my list and I had a great time. Thanks for the suggestion. Also, I fail to see what the straw man or any other Wizard of Oz character has to do with Warhammer 40k.
I am not a nerd-rager. I found that very offensive.
Why are you so angry with this guy and his success with this list? Do you enjoy being a wet blanket? Did you think of any more "what-ifs" to run this gentleman and his list through? I'm sure you did, but your last post was much too long and I didn't read it.
Back to the original poster:

Have to seen the other variations of this list running around? The one over at Frontlinegaming has only one 10 base squad of scarabs supported with 3x3 Spyders. This frees up 300 points (not spent on the other scarabs swarms) but looks like it might really hamper your ability to have plan B and C.
Secondly, have you played anything resembling a mirrior match up yet? I'm interested to see how Stormlord v Stormlord works and what is to be done besides grinding scarabs vs scarabs out.
Third, what changes do you think the players of those other tourney lists (IG, SW and GK's with lots of vehicles) will do to combat these new necron lists? How should they be playing? What should we be doing to counter act that? Should they footslog ahead of the vehicles?
Fourth, have you thought of adding Zahndrek to give your scarab carpet furious charge or tank hunters (does that just affect shooting or combat too?)

I have a few games coming up against a pretty good IG player who does Vendetta vets and a grey knights player that spams chimeras with henchmen and psyfilemen. Different than what I've played against so far (who had no idea what they were up against), these guys are pretty good and are probably expecting the scarabs. I'm interested to see how it goes and I will report back as soon as the games are over tomorrow.

[Maelstorm]

I got the room and my list and I had a great time. Thanks for the suggestion. Also, I fail to see what the straw man or any other Wizard of Oz character has to do with Warhammer 40k.
I am not a nerd-rager. I found that very offensive.
Why are you so angry with this guy and his success with this list? Do you enjoy being a wet blanket? Did you think of any more "what-ifs" to run this gentleman and his list through? I'm sure you did, but your last post was much too long and I didn't read it.
Back to the original poster:

Have to seen the other variations of this list running around? The one over at Frontlinegaming has only one 10 base squad of scarabs supported with 3x3 Spyders. This frees up 300 points (not spent on the other scarabs swarms) but looks like it might really hamper your ability to have plan B and C.
Secondly, have you played anything resembling a mirrior match up yet? I'm interested to see how Stormlord v Stormlord works and what is to be done besides grinding scarabs vs scarabs out.
Third, what changes do you think the players of those other tourney lists (IG, SW and GK's with lots of vehicles) will do to combat these new necron lists? How should they be playing? What should we be doing to counter act that? Should they footslog ahead of the vehicles?
Fourth, have you thought of adding Zahndrek to give your scarab carpet furious charge or tank hunters (does that just affect shooting or combat too?)

I have a few games coming up against a pretty good IG player who does Vendetta vets and a grey knights player that spams chimeras with henchmen and psyfilemen. Different than what I've played against so far (who had no idea what they were up against), these guys are pretty good and are probably expecting the scarabs. I'm interested to see how it goes and I will report back as soon as the games are over tomorrow.

I'll ignore the wet blanket.

Yes, I've seen several variations of this list and I've tried a couple. I'm not a fan of the list that starts with just 10 Scarabs supported by 3x3 Spyders. You would have to wait at least 1-2 turns before sending 1 Scrabs swarm forward to engage 1-2 enemy units. I beleive that gives the opponent too long to reposition and set themselves to minimize the single large charge. By placing the 25-30 scarabs in a long Horizontal row (minimizing possible flamer template or stray blast damage) from one side of the board to the other with a small gap in between there is no place to hide on the other side of the table - 3-6 units are getting assaulted or hard-pressed from turn 1 on. I like putting the opponent on their heels and forcing them to try to adapt to 25-30 (+6 per turn) units with 24" assault covering every inch of their front line. You'd be suprised at how few shots actually get fired into the Warriors/Immortals/Monolith/Tomp Spyders the whole game.

We only have 1 or 2 other Necron players at the club - plus some new guys buying them up quickly. I have yet to face-off against another Necron commander.

If I was playing flavor/color of the month Marines on the other side of the table - 2 rows of sideways parked Rhinos, (the first row being sacrificial) with Spotlights backed by cheap Heavy Bolter Devestators & Land Speeders with Heavy Bolters/Assault Cannons on the back edge of the table - lined-up to fire between them. Thunderfire Cannons guided by spotlights would be lethal. Inside the first row of rhinos might be min squads with Flamers. Force the Scarabs to eat the first row of Rhinos as a spead-bump and keep them out of CC. Follow-up with spotlighted torrent of fire (heavy bolter/Assault cannons) and blast templates. Heavier weapons should be focused on killing the Tomb Spyders to remove their support. Scarabs are just as prone to being bogged down in CC. Tie them up with a sacrifical unit and then drive around them to deliver the goods to the walking warriors. This is a concept that most push-button army commanders (IG/GK/Longfang Spam) will never grasp.

Yes, I've considered adding Zahndrekh to my forces to give me tank hunters/fuious charge/counter charge. However starting with larger units (45-50 attacks) precludes the need to "boost" them for effectiveness. When it comes down to it, the Scarabs, Tomb Spyders and Monolith are all 100% sacrificial to get the Warriors and Immortals into scoring position - always keep the end-goal/mission in mind when sending them forward. I just want to tie up enough of the enemy long enough to get my scoring troops in place for the win. If I table the opponent along the way, so much the better.

Good hunting!

[Brymm]

Success!!!
I played:

Immotek
Zhandrek
Lord w/orb and warscythe
Cryptek with lance and solar pulse
cryptek with chromotrom
7 Lychguard with sword and board
10 scarabs
10 scarabs
5 Warriors
10 Immortals
10 Immortals
2 Cy Spyders w 1 Gloomprisim
Monolith
Annihilation Barge

I played against Coetez/Chimera/Psyfilemen
about:
Coetez
Psyker battle squad
3 chimeras, 1 rhino
strike squad
10 deathcults with a librarian in a land raider crusader
3 psyfile men (1 was venerable)
vindicare
2 henchmen squads, one with flamers and one with melta

The guy I was playing is a great player. He knows whats up. We played Annihilation/Pitched battle
Quick summary: Immoteks night fighting lasted FOUR turns! That was easily the biggest factor in me winning this game, even though lightining only struck 3 times (really below average), killing a rhino, stunning a dread and killing his assassin.
The monolith can still soak up a lot of fire power and tends to shrug off a lot due to living metal. Most of what does hit it is glances and they can be ingnored a lot of the time. It was eventually killed by the Librarian and Coteaz swinging hammers at it.
The Scarabs took a lot of fire but still killed the land raider and tied up the deathcults.
The annihilation barge was sweet also, shaking off lots of psyfilemen fire. I accidently cheated a bit and was using it as a FAST skimmer the whole game, which it is not.
The Lychguard were suprisingly the MVP of the game. I used them as a countercharge unit in the last few games I played, but in this one I used them to multiassualt 7 Grey Knights of a strike squad and 6 henchmen. They ripped them up. Not to mention that I took an army worth of shots on the turn before I charged and managed only to lose one Lychguard, then took an army worth of fire the next turn (because I won and swept the remaining henchmen), and still lived to tie up a dread for the rest of the game.
The game ended after turn five with me killing:
Rhino
Chimera
Assassin
Strike Squad
Henchmen
Henchmen
Pyskers
Landraider

I lost:
1 Scarab Swarm
Monolith
Annihilation Barge
Lychguard

I benefited greatly from kill point denial due to night fighting! Amazing!

[Demonus]

killing his assassin

worth it just for that LOL.

yeah i wish the barge was fast skimmer, but it is only 90 pts. I made the mistake first time using it. Moved 12. Lined up my shots and then realized. "DOH".

did the assassin die early? i would think he would have blasted the monolith from the sky. maybe nightfighting helped there?

[Brymm]

did the assassin die early? i would think he would have blasted the monolith from the sky. maybe nightfighting helped there?[/QUOTE]

He did not die early, 3rd turn. He was making his pointless nightfighting hits, like chimeras, but then his assassin or dreads would roll 1/2 or 1/4 and be just out of range. My opponent learned pretty quick to spend the ONE point per chimera for searchlights, because they aren't standard. Neither are they standard on Dreads.

What a fun game. Plus, I was making reanimation protocol rolls like a boss. The crons are much more survivable in this codex, I love it.

[Maelstorm]

Excellent results - post it up under it's own heading so others can find it!!

Well done!

[Demonus]

haha nice. Down with he Imperial Lap Dogs!

[Requiemnex]

So now that we have two people in this forum talking about this list. I am curious. Does it feel very gimicky?

I am going to a 2k point tourney in Feb (templecon) and I am honestly trying to avoid a gimick army. I do believe that scarabs have their place, the tomb spiders do not really appeal to me much. I am curious if the majority of your success comes from the ability to crap out nearly an entire unit of scarabs each turn?

Imotekh, how is he rolling for you? as many have stated he makes MSU armies cry. Is he doing anything for you other than keeping it dark out, striking things down with his nasty storm and allowing the easier sieze?

[Bitrider]

Excellent results - post it up under it's own heading so others can find it!!

Well done!

I may have missed it, but what was the composition of the Eldar list?

G