Rapier

[heretic marine]

hi all

this is my rant about the Rapier
this thing is nice and all i have scratch built 1 already, but it is Artillery it cant move and shoot, and if you have seen the pics it is basically a tank so why cant it move and shoot. something with a gun that powerful is gonna get shot at in the first turn and die i hope that when the rules are no longer test rules it gets a special option to move and shoot.
well guys whats your input on this.

[LordGrise]

The model looks like it can move by itself, is described as self-powered, and has no provision for aiming independently of the frame and tracks. Thus, I would agree; it ought to have a movement.

Of course, this is GW. I'll just throw this on the pile of reasons for mounting a takeover of GW if ever I hit the lottery for some insane amount of money, shall I? Righto.

Of course, it's your game, man. Bounce it off your fellow players (I like to bribe mine with my wife's cooking before I hit them with my minor requests) and if they agree, there you go. The last time my guys declined one of my highly reasonable suggestions, my wife threatened a chili boycott... they fell into line right away.

I lost anyway :- P ::grin::

Seriously, local game, local rules, hoss. Just keep it to something you would be willing to play against.

[zenjah]

The model looks like it can move by itself, is described as self-powered, and has no provision for aiming independently of the frame and tracks. Thus, I would agree; it ought to have a movement.

It can move. It just can't move and shoot in the same turn. Much like a Thunderfire Cannon.

[Mr.Pickelz]

The whole move and shoot thing deals with the unit's power source. Usually a unit like this only has enough power to do one thing, and not multitask without suffering severe penalties to both.

[chrispcarter]

My beef with the rapier has more to do with the low range than the move/shoot issue. Why they felt it needed to be so limited is beyond me. In the modern game there are all sorts of horrendous long ranged weapons more powerful than this, so I think giving us 48" or farther is perfectly reasonable for an artillery unit of this type!

[Vaktathi]

36" isn't awful, and within that range, there's relatively little that's more effective at destroying vehicles, especially for the cost. A lascannon that rerolls failed hits, 2d6 pick highest for armor pen, and gets AP1 is pretty fearsome, in fact a battery of 3 is more than twice as effective in an AT role at 36" or less compared with a Vendetta.

[chromedog]

Its biggest drawback is the HS slot it takes up in a guard army.

It works better for a Dkok list, where it's an elite choice. Elites slot isn't chock-full of good choices anyway, but the IG HS is where ALL of the crunchy stuff is.

[Vaktathi]

To be fair, having it as Elites in a normal IG army would allow entirely too much mid-long range AT firepower, and this coming from a die-hard IG player.

9 Rapiers, 3 vendettas, and 3 Hydras for less than 1000pts? Being able to guarantee an average of 5-6 dead AV11 vehicles a turn would probably be a wee bit much, especially if you pile on a company of mechvets or a couple mechanized platoons on top of that in a 2k list.

And actually, in a DKoK list, I'd have preferred if they were HS instead of elites, I like my Heavy Mortars, and being Elites I'm forced to choose, whereas some decent AT in the HS slot is actually rather desperately needed.

[Lord Azaghul]

36" isn't awful, and within that range, there's relatively little that's more effective at destroying vehicles, especially for the cost. A lascannon that rerolls failed hits, 2d6 pick highest for armor pen, and gets AP1 is pretty fearsome, in fact a battery of 3 is more than twice as effective in an AT role at 36" or less compared with a Vendetta.

Yeah, but I think the range trade off, coupled with the slot loss for IG does kind of kill it. 48" is kinda the 'hit anywhere on the table' standard I like.

I have a couple older metal blisters of that model, I imagine that they will find there way into apoc games more then anything else.

[heretic marine]

i play a more speedy DKOK army list and over here we play on a 4-4 to 4-6, 6-4 (you get the idea) board and so in order for this thing to get in range it has to move, which with its little move and weak Armour its gonna blow before i get to shoot, and if i wait to shot it gets shot at by las cannons or other nasty guns. i am gonna take it in smaller army's with smaller tables but any other type of battle it might not be worth it.