shooty armies and making them better, an idea..

[computertrucker]

WARNING! long read
Hello all. So I have been reading up on multiple forums about different armies, peoples feelings and thoughts about the armies etc etc. While reading its easy to see that there are always at least 2 schools of thought in every debate/topic. Alot of the reason I started doing this over the last year is because after a decade of being away from the game. I let a friend talk me into trying it again. So I had to pick an army for myself.

Anyway Back on topic. One of the debates that I read over and over was the topic of CC vs Shooty, and how the game seemed to favor CC style armies. Now I also realize that not everyone shared this sentiment, but it seemed that a large majority did. Well I have played a few games over the last year and I can see why people feel this way to a large degree. Did I pick a shooty army myself? naa i picked out the well rounded Ultramarines. Even though I do own a copy of the necron codex and might start picking up figures for it soon as well.

The reason why I say I can see issue shooty armies have is pretty straight forward. 1. There are so many ways to get CC across the board fast. or instantly pratically. From superfast skimmers, to Deepstrikers. Armies like the tau that get longer range guns suddenly have that advantage nullified. 2. The lack of Shooters to either one shoot into melee, or two, get their shooty units that got caught in melee out of melee which in turn protects the CC monsters while they gobble up the shooters. 3. They took Overwatch out of the game since 2nd edition.. which i was like wow WHY??!! I knew they had taken it out in 3rd but had forgotten about it. 3rd edition is the reason I quit the game in the first place.

Anyway when looking at these 3 things that give huge advantages to CC in the game I started to break it down. How could it be adjusted to bring a bit more balance. ( yes i realize some might think its fine the way it is.)

Here is what I came up with.
Issue #1
-I like my drop pods. I like the tactical choices it gives me. I like that I can drop down on your front doorstep, and I realize this gives me the advantage to getting in close if thats what I am trying to do. New Wargear or abilities to jam deepstriking units. could be viable for armies like the tau. They did this with GreyKnights with their servo skulls and man can it cause issues. But you know what. Its a step in the right direction. Issue #3 can play into this as well, but i will get there.

Issue #2
-When 2 units are engaged in melee combat its like they have this stasis field around them that no one can shoot in.I understand this to a point. So either rules for shooting into melee could be made or we can do something else. But lets face it. If your tau get assaulted by marines or tyranids they might not kill you in one round but in 2 your dead. Then depending on the timing those Marines or nids or orcs or whatever are just going to run right into the next unit and continue eating you while your guns standing close by are useless.
- Example My unit of Marines on my turn assault your Necrons. I dont kill all of the Necrons on my turn. Your Turn comes along and the inevitable happens and I slaughter your necrons on your turn and make a sweeping advance... WOOHOO GO ME! moving up closer to another unit of necrons which I then get to assault on guess what my turn next. Your not going to shoot me and I am going to continue to rip your shooty crons to tiny bits of metal scrap.
-Solution (new rule): Tactical Withdraw: Unit locked in melee can move out of melee during their movement phase however all enemy models that are currently participating in the CC may make an immediate attack at the unit that withdrawing from the combat (yep thats gonna hurt) A unit that makes a Tactical Withdraw may not run, shoot or assault this turn.
-Outcome of this new rule. You know what you might wipe out my unit of Necrons that are leaving the CC. However I now have the option of shooting your unit with my shooty non CC style army.

Issue #3
-Why did they take overwatch out of the game??? Put it back in! This could even be a solution to issue #1. For those that dont know what overwatch is. It works like this. I move my tact squad up to a wall behind a building. Nothing for me to shoot at. So I put them on overwatch. (Sgt is giving the order if anything comes around that corner fill them full of holes) Granted my missile launcher trooper is toting a heavy weapon and cant move and shoot so no overwatch for him this turn. Next turn 30 ork boys come storming around the corner WAAAGHH!! My marines get to use overwatch reaction and pop off their shots.
-Example 2. Tau are standing on a ridge thinking to themselves i thought there were supposed to marines on the other side of the field? guess they didnt make to this fight after all. The order is given to advance towards their objective but be on guard (ie overwatch). They start to move forward when suddenly Space marine Drop pods start falling from the heavens, and out come the Cub Scouts err Space Puppie err umm Wolves. Those tau on overwatch that are having their range advantage taken away from the fact that drop pods just fell at their feet at least get a chance to shoot before getting shot at one turn and then assaulted the next.

Anyway I realize not everyone might not like these suggestions, However they would go some way to balance things IMHO.. Heck I didnt even mention Shooty armies get the chance to do what they do best on only their round... CC style armies to to rip the enemy to shreds every round, and as mentioned above if done correctly can even make it where the shooty armies really never even get the chance to shoot them once they get started.

[w7west]

What if instead of making shooting armies better, we actually make them worse, all close combat attacks auto hit non skimmer vehicles no matter what = makes sense, balances game.

[DarkLink]

Shooting actually dominates the game right now. Go to a tournament, and see how many pure CC lists there are. And ignore armies like 'nidz that kinda force you to take more CC stuff anyways because they lack shooting options.

In fact, pure shooting armies are much more common than pure CC armies. The bulk of armies, however, will have a large amount of shooting with a couple solid CC units to back them up.


This is actually pretty well balanced as it is. Currently, the bulk of the game will be spent shooting at each other, trying to kill tanks and inflict casualties. If you are able to get into assault, bodies will start dropping quickly. You can shoot from across the board every turn, thus shooting is individually weaker. CC can slaughter entire squads in a single phase, but is balanced by the fact that it's tough to get into CC in the first place.

[Myu]

While overwatch is realistic I think they removed it cause people wouldn't want to run into the enemy guns...

[Night System]

To echo what has already mentioned. Shooting is already the stronger of the two combat styles this edition, Most of the cookie-cutter internet lists use shooting as its main method.

The deal is, shooting armies can harm units for all turns of the game (range dependent). Assault armies can only harm units from around turn 3 onwards (speed dependent, some obviously faster).

[Fellend]

Space is the only real problem there is. There's no room to maneuver because of the sheer amount of units on the board. (Especially shooty infantry lists) so once those CC gets up close and personal there's very little you can do about it.

[doom-kitten]

I gotta agree with the shooty advantage opinion here, theres many ways to deny a CC army from removing casualties from the front instead of rear, creating killboxes and bait traps. Hell, using cover properly is a bonus always position your squads in cover to force the enemy to roll move through cover checks. Use cheap armoured units like rhinos to close avenues of attack and create tarpits with their wreackage, or just simply a mobile wall. Drop pods in my opinion deliever a unit to it's death and one is never enough anyways if your gonna drop pod use at least two and dreadnoughts preferably. I don't use most of these tricks but have seen them in action and they can seriously hinder CC armies.
Always take defensive grenades in able, and always ask if your opponent has assualt grenades don't assume they do as that INT 10 can help, another tactic is my favourite...counter attack. Most CC armies don't handle the loss of intiative well (not the die roll at the game start), and will flounder their opponents steals the flow of the game and starts directed where and when the CC army can react also mobility is key. Often times CC is on foot or mounted in Open-topped, or assualt vehicles and successful movement and deployment is key. If facing a fast assualt army like DE try to create cordons and don't bother trying to keep up with them consolodate and defend, keep units paired and supporting one other if you have to mass assualt, 60 guardsman vs 10 Wyches can do some damage and will tarpit them.
Don't be afraid to Tank shock either, I've had my rhinoes chase off more then enough enemies to know this works and it can be handy for delievering a unit to the enemies rear and great way to bypass an opponents unit to attack another without them getting a cover save from their buddies in front.

[doom-kitten]

The deal is, shooting armies can harm units for all turns of the game (range dependent). Assault armies can only harm units from around turn 3 onwards (speed dependent, some obviously faster).

This isn't quite true most CC dependant armies have a unit or two that can potentially gain a 2nd or even first turn charge, DE, and Orks being key also Tyranids with Hive Commander and Genestealers, deployment style is also important. In Dawn of war most CC are in your face pronto due to the advantage of the 24" deployment and only 18" inches of spacing between, armies with Fleet or fast assualt vehicles giggle with joy (DE).