Mathhammer and you.

[Slug]

I'm interested in a few things here. Firstly, do you use mathhammer, and if so, how much and for what purpose? as well as gauging if people would like to learn more about how to both do simple and more complex probability, and how to use and apply probability to a game.

If people are interested I will happily write up a small passage on probability (basic and binomial if your interested), but I won't bother if no will read it (simplifying binomial is a bit of an effort, though I'm happy to do it).

I personally use it allot when list building, both to work out how useful certain weapons are as well as what sort of impact a unit will have on other units in assault and shooting. It can give a good idea of the damage output of a unit as well as what sort of punishment it can take. Also, basic probability can be used on the fly in a game to work out whether a certain shot or charge is going to be worth it.

[Lore Weaver]

I love math-hammer. I've looked at one math-hammer problem and haven't started working it out yet.

Necron Overlord (BS4) shooting a Tachyon Arrow at a Vehicle with the assistance of a single re-roll from a Chronometron Cryptek.

Solve for
P(Wrecked/Destroyed AV 14)
P(Wrecked/Destroyed AV 13)
P(Wrecked/Destroyed AV 12)
P(Wrecked/Destroyed AV 11)
P(Wrecked/Destroyed AV 10)
P(Wrecked/Destroyed AV 10 open-topped)

[Slug]

88% chance of hitting, you then have to do multiple different solutions as you can use the reroll at different points. hence, if the reroll was used to achieve the 88% you have about 20% chance of destroying the target after hitting (as in hitting is not included in that). However, if the reroll is not used then you have the ability to reroll either the pen roll or the damage chart roll. having the ability to reroll, or otherwise add an extra step adds time, as for one problem multiple solutions have to be worked out.

[Wildeybeast]

I don't use it as I like themed army lists and prefer palyign for fun, but I would like to know more about it as I know people who use it and never really got it.

[DarkLink]

I'd say I'd read it, but I already know all about binomial theory and basic statistics. I do see so many people misunderstanding it that it would be nice to have a good explanation out there, though.

[Necron2.0]

I don't use it because I have degrees in mathematics and engineering.

[lobster-overlord]

"Math is hard!" -- Barbie

I agree

[BuFFo]

I care less about the cold, emotionless side of winning through statistics, and more about the warm, fun of making friends and making sure my opponent has a good time.

And if my opponent is all about mathhammer, he isn't having fun anyway because he always gets surprised when rolls don't go his way, or even come out average. When 4 out of his 5 termies roll a 1 and die, the drop look on his face means I need to make the game extra warm and inviting for him.

It's like caring for a toddler.

[Necron2.0]

I care less about the cold, emotionless side of winning through statistics, and more about the warm, fun of making friends and making sure my opponent has a good time.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, necessarily. In my case, creating a competitive list is all about not boring my opponent. Right now, I'm in the middle of crunching the numbers for the entire Necron codex. There's so much variability, I don't want to waste both time and money putting together a fluffy army my friends will mud-stomp in two turns. I already went that route with Dark Eldar in some ways. While a full-on blood bath is fun occasionally, for the emotionally stable gamer it gets old pretty quick.

[BuFFo]

The two aren't mutually exclusive, necessarily. In my case, creating a competitive list is all about not boring my opponent. Right now, I'm in the middle of crunching the numbers for the entire Necron codex. There's so much variability, I don't want to waste both time and money putting together a fluffy army my friends will mud-stomp in two turns. I already went that route with Dark Eldar in some ways. While a full-on blood bath is fun occasionally, for the emotionally stable gamer it gets old pretty quick.

I don't disagree, but your opinion doesn't change my life experiences over many years.

The kind of player that gets mad, frustrated, dejected and pissed is "nearly" always the player who banks on "trying to win" and using "math hammer".

When I play against people who play casually, when they lose models, hey don't really care, but math hammer fanatics throw fits or get visably sad when the odds of the dice don't go as they expected.

Casual player loses 4 terminators, bleh, it happens, now they sleep with the Emperor.

Mathhammer player loses 4 terminators, holy cow that is impossible! blah blah blah, and the b!tching doesn't stop, like, ever. I still hear about someone losing a land raider to an ork rocket years after it happened. get over it, seriously.

let me put it this way, if I had to choose between someone drinking a coke and smoking weed before we play a game and someone holding a calculator and 5 different math charts for various game occurrences, I'll choose the pot head every time.