Abusing the Rules: Rubberbanding, this can't be right

[cody]

Getting hit by deneghra's feat isn't "fun" either, but I'm not about to tell people to stop playing her, especially in a competitive environment.

If you want to talk about really broken rules, look at how shield guard (doesn't) work. By comparison this is pretty innocent.

[ElectricPaladin]

Getting hit by deneghra's feat isn't "fun" either, but I'm not about to tell people to stop playing her, especially in a competitive environment.

If you want to talk about really broken rules, look at how shield guard (doesn't) work. By comparison this is pretty innocent.

Well, you could argue that this makes Deneghra's feat also a flawed piece of game design, much like the rubberbanding ruling. This is a game, after all. It's supposed to be fun.

[tyrant of khador]

I would like to say by no means am I an exp WM/H player, but WM/H is a game of opportunity and misdirection. Yes I don't believe rubberbanding is legal, it is what it is and with that use it against your opponent and make him feel he is protected. With that most games end with that of false sense of security.

[Vinsklortho]

They lose access to one of their infantry models in order to get a buff on a unit. Its not terribly much different from using an arc node. For a second I thought this thread was going to be about yo-yoing which is drastically more annoying.

[Emerett]

I just wouldn't play against somebody pulling that.

You may need to find a new group.

[Fysh]

I agree that this may be legal, but that doesn't mean it should really be used, especially in friendly games. I'm just in the process of learning the game with a friend, we normally play 40k, and something like this would get you punched in the dick.

We've never played in a store, even thought our FLGS has a pretty good crew, mostly for issues like this. I play the game to have fun, not to get pissed on by a douchebag that see's winning as the only way to have fun at a game.

[cody]

The idea that you would physically assault someone for playing completely within the rules begs the question of who is really being a (insert sexist insult here).

If you don't like it in friendly games, just ask them to play a different caster, same as if it was deneghra you were tired of.

In a tournament, you'd better have a plan to deal with it, just like you'd better have a plan to deal with def19 kayazy or getting hit by eiryss + a feat and losing an entire turn, or any of the other "broken" stuff in the game.

[Kovnik Obama]

It isn't clear whether or not it's an intentional rule design, and usually PP isn't to bad at admitting their mistake. They will FAQ things inside a ridiculous short time, and when interactions happen that are broken, the player base hear about it fast enough (ex; the SW broken rule). For the time being, and knowing new UA and Attachments comes out that still imply rubberbanding, it should be assumed that the game is being balanced taking it in account. Maybe you feel that sucks, but at least that's better than being a blind interaction the designers prefers to ignore, like some people here assume.

We might still get a MKii Remix rule set, who knows? In the meantime, the fact that I have to sacrifice taking part in Orders and * actions so that I can rubberband a spell on a unit is enough of a trade off.

Anyway, I just want to point out that the tactically worst mistake is to decide rubberbanding is unintended and should be ignored as an interaction. If it comes up in a tourney, and you have decided to deny it's existence, you will be the one paying for it. And the more it comes up, the more it will be mentioned to the designers as either a good or a bad thing.

[Kovnik Obama]

Well, you could argue that this makes Deneghra's feat also a flawed piece of game design, much like the rubberbanding ruling. This is a game, after all. It's supposed to be fun.

Yeah, but it's a wargame, you know? I mean, far from me the intention to tell you how you should view your time with your toy soldiers : if you want to make this a game, fine, but to a lot of us, it's both a game and and a tactical challenge. That means your success will be dependent on how good the choices you make are in the situations you encounter. Your bad choices, or your opponent's good choices might make you very unsuccessful. If that is not fun for you, than you must either become better within the competitive mindset, stop playing a competitive game (i.e. a wargame), or house rule the hell out of the rule set to make it fit your definition of fun.

It is not, however, a design flaw.

[GentleBen]

I agree that this may be legal, but that doesn't mean it should really be used, especially in friendly games. I'm just in the process of learning the game with a friend, we normally play 40k, and something like this would get you punched in the dick.

We've never played in a store, even thought our FLGS has a pretty good crew, mostly for issues like this. I play the game to have fun, not to get pissed on by a douchebag that see's winning as the only way to have fun at a game.

So I emphasized something there to make an important point. Warmachine is not 40k. There is no burden on the player to try to decide what is sporting. This is because Privateer Press makes a tremendous effort to create rules that are balanced. They aren't perfect at it but they try, and continue to be some of the best in the business in that regard.

People come to Warmachine from 40k all the time and assume it is their business to cry foul on rules that they think are "broken" because that's what they are used to. This is the wrong attitude to have. When you find a rule that seems overpowered, the first thing that comes through your mind should be "in future games, how do I use this to my advantage?" That's because the people at Privateer already know about it, and have accepted it as part of the game. Which means so should you.

If you call someone out for using rules as written you are wrong. Period.

This is something that may take awhile to accept. That's how it was for me. One of the biggest weaknesses Warmachine has a system is the way it can blindside people. Someone does something you didn't know about, you lose when you thought you were ahead, and you feel cheated. All your tactical brilliance was disintegrated by this annoying little move that doesn't seem right (rubberbanding in this case). But the upside is that now you know about it. That means next time you shouldn't be caught off guard. And hopefully it will be your turn to do something amazing and take the win.