GW prices.

[Thornblood]

This thread was one of my biggest mistakes.

*Biggest mistakes on this forum. My life has bigger ones for the record.

[gendoikari87]

MMmmmmmmm a thread with GW and prices in the title, it wasn't going to end well was it?

That wasn't obvious from post 1? Still it's amazing how many people will defend price gouging.

[Bean]

That's some of the dumbest shyte I've ever heard.

...

Jesus, man. Some of what you're spouting is so ignorant it's concerning.

Agreed.

[Uncle Nutsy]

so what.. you guys think a baneblade should cost something like twenty five bucks? a pack of warriors, eight bucks? pack of gaunts, two fifty?

let's get something reeeeeal straight here. GW models are CHEAP. I mean really cheap.

Let's compare one of the hobbies I enjoy to this hobby.

Say, I want a battery for my RC car right? I can go the cheapo route with a NiMH pack and pay about.. thirty bucks. Or, I could go with what I like, a name brand lipo battery and pay about.. a hundred twenty for it. You read right. 120 bucks - for a single battery. Another thing is for a speed controller I can get the low quality one and pay about fourty for it. Or I could get a name brand one and pay about 140 or so. If I want to go high end, brushless.. I'm looking at about 250. For a piece of electronics that's no bigger than an inch square. And I haven't even included the price of a motor, tyres, bodies, tools, accessories and other bits you would need.

A chassis where I mount all this stuff can range anywhere between 110 (used) to about 600 bucks brand new. Chargers range anywhere between 99 bucks to about 350.

So if I want a decent setup to hit the track with, I'm looking at about.. one thousand dollars,maybe a little more. If anyone spent around a grand on their 40k army.. it would be MASSIVE. maybe 3500-4000 points worth.

And RC helis? heh yeah you guys would have a heart attack if I were to tell you the total cost for a helicopter that's on the larger side plus all supporting equipment.

So, in summation, step back from the cost of 40k models and look at the prices for stuff in other hobbies. Maybe that will put things in perspective.

tl;dr version: this thread is LOL.

[gendoikari87]

have we actually discussed the actual business aspect of this? I mean I can't get anyone into the hobby because the look at the price and say "screw it" And they move on to other hobbies/wargames. Hell I know 40k Veterans who are quitting because of the price increases. so in the two places i've lived in the past six months I know about 30 players, or ex players, 0 have picked up the hobby, and 5 of those have quit. It's not a large sample size but I can imagine it's like this in a lot of places. It's hard to get people into the hobby of toy soldiers when you tell them it's going to be a minimum $300 if you want something that isn't AOBR deathwing. So if this is true, GW is strangling new player growth, in a time when they should be growing it. But short term profits are so much more alluring than the long haul strategy.

P.S. The remote control car analogy is bull, it's literally like comparing apples to oranges.

[Bean]

have we actually discussed the actual business aspect of this? I mean I can't get anyone into the hobby because the look at the price and say "screw it" And they move on to other hobbies/wargames. Hell I know 40k Veterans who are quitting because of the price increases. so in the two places i've lived in the past six months I know about 30 players, or ex players, 0 have picked up the hobby, and 5 of those have quit. It's not a large sample size but I can imagine it's like this in a lot of places. It's hard to get people into the hobby of toy soldiers when you tell them it's going to be a minimum $300 if you want something that isn't AOBR deathwing. So if this is true, GW is strangling new player growth, in a time when they should be growing it. But short term profits are so much more alluring than the long haul strategy.

P.S. The remote control car analogy is bull, it's literally like comparing apples to oranges.

Look, Gendo, from a pure business standpoint, your position obviously doesn't hold water. Games Workshop is doing quite well, financially. Thus, their prices are clearly not too high.

It may be the case that their pricing will prove to have been a mistake later down the road, if it is really the case that prices are barring entry, but since you have no data on that point at all, we're basically back to the part where your position fails to hold water.

Also, remote control cars are a pretty reasonable analogy--both are purely discretionary expenditures in the hobby category. Sure, there might be a more direct comparison to be made to other war-gaming companies (it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to think that we're more likely to see people choosing between Warmachine and Warhammer than between Warhammer and RC cars) but it's not really an apples-to-oranges scenario.

Or, take more literally, it is. The phrase "apples to oranges" always strikes me as odd, since apples and oranges are, in fact, quite similar--especially within the context of economics. When shopping for groceries, I'm actually routinely going to compare apples to oranges when deciding what produce to buy, and that is fairly similar to the type of decision one makes when trying to decide what hobby to get into.


edit:
On a slightly different note, here's a good run-down of price gouging from Wikipedia:

Price gouging is a pejorative term referring to a situation in which a seller prices goods or commodities much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. This rapid increase in prices occurs after a demand or supply shock: examples include price increases after hurricanes or other natural disasters. In precise, legal usage, it is the name of a crime that applies in some of the United States during civil emergencies. In less precise usage, it can refer either to prices obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits. In the Soviet Union, it was simply included under the single definition of speculation.

The term is similar to profiteering but can be distinguished by being short-term and localized, and by a restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property. In jurisdictions where there is no such crime, the term may still be used to pressure firms to refrain from such behavior.

The term is not in widespread use in mainstream economic theory, but is sometimes used to refer to practices of a coercive monopoly which raises prices above the market rate that would otherwise prevail in a competitive environment.[1] Alternatively, it may refer to suppliers' benefiting to excess from a short-term change in the demand curve.

As you can see, GW's pricing scheme is not even remotely similar to price gouging.

It is not, for example, short-term and localized, based on a restriction to essentials. It is not based around a coercive monopoly.

It does not involve prices above the rate that would otherwise prevail in a competitive environment, because GW is operating in a competitive environment.

It does not involve excess from a short-term change in the demand curve.

GW's pricing is not price gouging. It's not even close, and your use of the term only serves to hammer home the conclusion that you really have no idea what you're talking about.

[wittdooley]

I'd argue that GW is expanding their potential player base with things like books and video games. Space Marine has been pretty successful. I have no idea whether or not it has brought in new players, but there are certainly people that weren't aware of the universe that are now. Same goes for the HH books that find themselves on the New York Times Bestsellers list. Because they're on that list, more people are going to be aware of them.

P.S. The remote control car analogy is bull, it's literally like comparing apples to oranges.

Why? It's all about competing funds people have for a hobby. You even state you have people leaving 40k "for other hobbies."

40K is certainly higher than most, but when compared to other wargames, you get more models. So there's some cost-benefit someone would have to look into there. But if you're looking at an expanding player base, newcomers are either coming by word of mouth or from one of the above two avenues.

If they're coming from the books or the video games, they're coming for 40k. Not Infinity. Not Warmachine. Not Malifaux. So if they decide 40k is too high a price for them, they're unlikely to migrate to one of these other lines.

I mean, I'll even make the argument for the other systems: If you want to start wargaming, there are cheaper entry systems. A full playable army and rulebook for pretty much any other system is going to run you $100 bucks. 40k, for a rulebook and a single full army is going to run you around $300-400. 40k and Warmachine have 2-player starters which are fully playable from box for $100.

However, if your new player base is coming for 40k from the video games or the books, they don't have much onus to want to look into the other systems unless they're looking for "wargame" and not Warhammer.

Coincidentally, the buy in for 40k is about the same as the buy in for any video game system.

40k Veterans quitting because of the 'price increases' don't make sense. They already have armies they can play. Increasing prices have no bearing on what they already have, and are able to play with.

You talk about business, and I'm not sure you really have any business acumen or know-how enabling your commentary. GW is growing their brand more than any other wargame system. This is evident in their video games, their books, and now, their movies. To say that they're concerned only about their short term, and not their long term, is simply ignorant. As a public company, they have to be concerned about their long term.

GW's pricing is not price gouging. It's not even close, and your use of the term only serves to hammer home the conclusion that you really have no idea what you're talking about.

Hear Hear! And Seconded

[Lord Azaghul]

This thread is getting idiotic. Seriously, stop the insults, the rape commentary, and the holier then thou attitudes.

Fan boys will be fan boys.

Haters will be Haters, including some of the fan boys.

Both will justify their 'wills and desires' until the end of time, and neither will sway the other.

***

In my humble and respectful option:

GW is damned expensive - saying it is 'relatively inexpensive' is just silly. Its still a good amount of cash to ask for bits of un-assembled plastic, metal and resin bits. If I'm not buying it - I'm saving money.

It can only be compared to other miniature hobbies - and yeah, PP ain't cheap either.

Comparing business models only works with other gaming hobbies companies, and yes GW did a few very stupid things last year, but do I have an firm grasp of all the behind the scenes? - nope - so I'll leave it there.

Gamers ARE addicts - but, sure it still a 'choice'. I chose to buy more Dystopain War stuff for my b-day rather then GW stuff, wanna guess which game I prefer right now?

IMO - - I no longer feel the product is worth the cost. They lost me 2 price increase ago, but I was flagging long before that = Aka - 8th edition fantasy, and the recent releasing of VC before Dwarves put the proverbial nail in the coffin for me for 8th ed. But the hardly matters - 8th ed failed in my area.

Sure I still like the look of 40k, but I have little desire to play it. Doesn't mean I hate GW (aside from their whfb) It just means that they currently aren't earning MY business.


One or two of you fan boys REALLY need to take it down a notch or two. GW doesn't need to running to their rescue, or you need to stop taking other peoples options of GW personally.

If you want to keep buying GW stuff - great - but don't get all high and mighty about it.

Lets try and treat each other civilly here.

[Wildeybeast]

'd argue that GW is expanding their potential player base with things like books and video games. Space Marine has been pretty successful. I have no idea whether or not it has brought in new players, but there are certainly people that weren't aware of the universe that are now. Same goes for the HH books that find themselves on the New York Times Bestsellers list. Because they're on that list, more people are going to be aware of them.

Not to mention in all good book retailers. Every bookstore I've been in the UK has BL books in a vey prominent position within th fantasy/sci-fi section. In fact I went in my locka store the other day and noticed the BL stuff now has it's own display bookshelf. This gives them public awareness amongst the sci-fi/fantasy audience, in the same way Space Marine gave them access to the shooter market.

And ultimately, GW's new gamer market has been kids for quite some time now, and the cost is never really going to put parents off when it comes to their kid's happiness. £36 for a Mortis Throne or £50 for a PS3 game? Guess what mums going to buy (particularly as the staff in GW go out of their way to be helpful, unlike the monosyllabic drones in your average high street game store). Adult gamers may not take it up because of the price, but kids will as parents have no concept of the value of the models and the kids don't care.

[Wildeybeast]

One or two of you fan boys REALLY need to take it down a notch or two. GW doesn't need to running to their rescue, or you need to stop taking other peoples options of GW personally.

If you want to keep buying GW stuff - great - but don't get all high and mighty about it.

And the haters need to stop making idiotic and offensive comments comparing GW to rapists

Lets try and treat each other civilly here.

There, fixed that for you.