Rules Problems

[Joey Boor]

Basically this thread is all about discussing the various problems that we have with the current ruleset.

My problem is that the other night I was playing Planetstrike with my usual group when the Tyranid player that was assaulting me got the idea that her gaunts with the without number rule could deepstrike even when her codex specifically states that they walk on from her table edge. So the question is, who should be right? Me for following the letter of the rules or her for following the theme of the expansion.

[Lord Inquisitor]

The expansion does trump the regular rules for 40k. But then comes the question of whether it trumps the codexes. In my opinion I would say that they have to come in from the boards edge. Because planetstrike is an expansion of the 40k rulebook, not any codex. So Just like a codex can trump the rulebook I would say the codex would trump the expansion.

[warpcrafter]

A problem came up on another forum and they were unable to solve it because a couple of members insisted on being children about the whole thing, so I'll pose the question here and hope for the best. It says in the rules for the Ork battlewagon's Deff rolla that it gets D6 S10 hits against any unit that it tank shocks. Now it doesn't specifically say anything about this being against infantry/cavalry only, but it seems to me that when ramming a vehicle, it would only get a single ramming attack at the standard strength, because otherwise it would be an absolute vehicle destroyer. Am I wrong or just overly charitable to my enemies?

[Rapture]

A problem came up on another forum and they were unable to solve it because a couple of members insisted on being children about the whole thing, so I'll pose the question here and hope for the best. It says in the rules for the Ork battlewagon's Deff rolla that it gets D6 S10 hits against any unit that it tank shocks. Now it doesn't specifically say anything about this being against infantry/cavalry only, but it seems to me that when ramming a vehicle, it would only get a single ramming attack at the standard strength, because otherwise it would be an absolute vehicle destroyer. Am I wrong or just overly charitable to my enemies?

Anyone who argues that a metal cylinder on the front of a car would for some reason cause multiple collisions when it crashed into another car is obviously digging for an advantage and should be avoided.

[Lord Inquisitor]

A vehicle isn't a unit. It is a model or vehicle. So it would use the ramming rules. But if it where true, a real life example would be that car with the cylinder hits the side of a car once, one hit, rolls up a little, two hits, rolls up some more, three hits, and does this until it potentionally goes all the way across the car. Its a thought.
I also have a question. With the order First Rank Fire Second Rank Fire, does this order work on Hot-Shot Lasguns. When someone said it to me I was outright no, but I mean it says lasguns in the order and they are lasguns, albeit hot-shot ones. So far I've not tried for the sake of I try not to be a jerk. But I'm all for using the rules to their greatest potential.

[N-Bomb]

For the tankshock with deathroller, I would say yes for 3 reasons. First and foremost the explaination given by Lord Inquisitor. Secondly, it is a unit (albiet a unit of one). Finally, Ramming is a form of tank shock (it specifically says in the rulebook that ramming is a form of tank shock).
As for the hot-shot lasguns I was asking the people at the place I game at and I've gotten a mixture of opinions, I guess until an FAQ comes out you kind of have to house rule it, it is a lasgun, but not a 'lasgun' lasgun.

[bob]

About first rank fire second rank fire ,in the order description it says " if the unit did not move in its movement phase they fire two shots with their lasguns at an enemy up to 24" away, instead of just one"
Unless you think it adds 6" to the range of hotshot lasguns then the answer is a definite no.

The deff rolla's a hard one to make a call on with out the book in front of me , but common sense says one

[N-Bomb]

I forgot all about the mention of range in the definition of FRFSRF, so I'll side with bob on that one.

This may seem odd (and possibly in the rulebook, I don't have mine on me right now), but when people disembark from a valkarie or vendetta, if they aren't using the deepstrike style dissembark (say the vehicle was stationary) and you have it on a fly base, do you still measure from the access points, thus making it impossible, or do you simply measure from the base?

[Lord of Deeds]

Lasguns and Hot Shot lasguns are two different weapons, they are listed separately. So to me RAW is pretty clear and the first recond, second rank fire special rule only applies to lasguns. If it applied to both it would say hot shot lasguns and lasguns.


As for the Deff-rolla I think RAW and RAI both make the overwhelming case that you only get the D6 S10 attacks when you tank shock and not ram. Why else have a reinforced ram in the list? The Deff-rolla to me is definitely meant for killing infantry and the reinforced ram for vehicles.

Oh and for what it's worth I play Orks.

[bob]

As for the Deff-rolla I think RAW and RAI both make the overwhelming case that you only get the D6 S10 attacks when you tank shock and not ram. Why else have a reinforced ram in the list? The Deff-rolla to me is definitely meant for killing infantry and the reinforced ram for vehicles.
.

Unfortunately ramming is a type of tank shock , thats why the discussion exists