Did Chapterhouse win?

[Inquiring M1nd]

There's this that I've found: [url]http://www.mediafire.com/?ralq48ow8dr5do1[/url]

It's a PDF of the complaint.

And this was posted to the blog a while back, useful only if you have access to the PACER system.

[url]http://dockets.justia.com/docket/illinois/ilndce/1:2010cv08103/250791/[/url]

I found some of the information in there to be interesting outside of the case itself, such as the region I live being the largest U.S. selling market with the most stores. Also, the curiously warm fuzzy feeling of knowing the description of the 40K fluff has been officially entered into the Illinois court records.

[Hive777]

I was hoping to avoid using PACER, as I'd rather not pay for the documents if I want to download them. But I did get the complaint--thanks for the links.

[Kawauso]

Is the space marine concept 25 years old or older? If so, can it become a public domain? That is what happened to the AR-15 assault rifle. Now everybody can make them. I don't even know if that is relevant in this case. But that is a question I was having.

You know that's not true if a patent/copyright is being kept up-to-date, right?

Also, you can't trademark or copyright the notion of a 'space marine'.

And finally, 40k didn't come up with it. They're at least as old as Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie).

[gcsmith]

Not quite. Part of the initial suit was about CHS using GW trademarks in their website - they amended the website before this even went to court. The part that is holding up the case is that GW ALSO asserts that CHS violates other trademarks and copyright as well, but has not, to date, provided examples of any of the works that are supposedly copied. in fact, when asked to provide copies of the models in question, GW attached a bizarre, overlong summation of the 40k universe and some of the equipment in it, without a so much as a picture of a model, much less an actual model. Additionally, they have gone so far as to claim they own the trademark on things like wings, swords, roman numerals, lions, griffins, scale patterns, overlapping or banded armor, and skulls.

Also, they have asked CHS to provide a comprehensive list of ever piece of literature, movie, model, and comic that served as inspiration for CHS's items. CHS's defense has objected on the grounds that asking for a complete list of every piece of fiction processed in several lifetimes is unreasonable and needlessly limiting to the independent creation defense.

In the case of the Tervigon, CHS even owns the trademark on it, as GW did not register the trademark (like they should have right before or immediately after the codex was released.), and CHS was the first to release a product under that name

Wrong In britain the trademark is owned by the existane of rules for it, not the model


To throw up a comparison that has been made before - are non-official car part manufacuters wrong because the profit off of the existence of major car companies like Ford and Honda? They don't pay royalties to those companies.

Yes it is wrong if the intention was to piggy back off the other companies reputation, which is what is happeneing in the case of CHS, especially with creating models for various SPecial cahracter and then claiming they own the copy right,

[DarkLink]

Okay I guess GW needs to start shelling out to wizards of the coast then

I think you mean Frank Herbert. For 40k, at least.

You can't sue because someone used your IP as inspiration for something they did. Copies? yeah sure, inspiration? hell no.

You actually thing that chapterhouse was just "inspired by"? The only way it could have been more blatantly copying GW's work is if they took molds of GW's actual models and reproduced them.

[Dyrnwyn]

Wrong In britain the trademark is owned by the existane of rules for it, not the model

The suit is filed in a US court, under US law. I don't pretend to be a massive expert on copyright and trademark law, most of my information is gleaned from brief research and the word of the ACTUAL lawyers prowling the Warseer threads. That said, a trademark isn't generated by writing about something - a trademark is generated by selling something under a particular name or mark, or registering it. That name or mark is an unregistered trademark if you are the first to sell something under that mark, or you can register a mark in advance of making a product, to insure that the name is not taken while you develop/produce the product. The longer you go between registering a mark and selling a product, the better case another company has to challenge the mark. A year or less is not in the easily challenged range though.

Chapterhouse WAS in the wrong by selling 'Space Marine Shoulderpads' instead of "Shoulderpads compatible with Games Workshop's Space Marines (TM)," but that issue was voluntarily resolved by Chapterhouse after GW contacted them.

Yes it is wrong if the intention was to piggy back off the other companies reputation, which is what is happeneing in the case of CHS, especially with creating models for various SPecial cahracter and then claiming they own the copy right, [/B]

I'm not sure you quite understand what copyright is. Copyright is the right to control copies of your works. Copies is the relevant word there. If CHS took say, an existing Eldar warlock model, cast, reproduced and sold it, it would be a clear violation of copyright law. If they added square horns to the model and sold it, then they would only own the copyright to the horns, as it would be a derivative work, and GW would be able to shut them down. A newly sculpted model that is based on an existing style is not a copy, and its status as a derivative work is questionable at best.

EDIT: Furthermore, from the automotive industry, we have must fit and must match requirements - for instance a door intended to work with an existing vehicle has to both fit the mounting points, and match the appearance of the part it replaces. Similarly, an argument can be made that if a Rhino door in a conversion kit is meant to replace a Rhino door in a GW model, it's going to look similar.

[gendoikari87]

I think you mean Frank Herbert. For 40k, at least.



You actually thing that chapterhouse was just "inspired by"? The only way it could have been more blatantly copying GW's work is if they took molds of GW's actual models and reproduced them.

Doesn't matter, they weren't copies, they were original works. Perhaps based/inspired by on 40k but they were still original works. Similarities don't count. As for the names, what they have up NOW, nothing they're using is copyrighted, I can't speak for what they had before they took everything down, but everything they have NOW is legit.

[Psychosplodge]

You actually thing that chapterhouse was just "inspired by"? The only way it could have been more blatantly copying GW's work is if they took molds of GW's actual models and reproduced them.

Some of them look like they have been cast from than tweaked... *cough* jet bike *cough*

EDIT: Furthermore, from the automotive industry, we have must fit and must match requirements - for instance a door intended to work with an existing vehicle has to both fit the mounting points, and match the appearance of the part it replaces. Similarly, an argument can be made that if a Rhino door in a conversion kit is meant to replace a Rhino door in a GW model, it's going to look similar.

I thought the automative industry generally "released" the copyright on things like brake pads, shocks, filters etc, because whos going to buy a car where you can only buy the spares from the dealer?

Doesn't matter, they weren't copies, they were original works. Perhaps based/inspired by on 40k but they were still original works. Similarities don't count. As for the names, what they have up NOW, nothing they're using is copyrighted, I can't speak for what they had before they took everything down, but everything they have NOW is legit.

I think they basically got greedy, if they'd stuck to selling symbols, armour plates, head and weapon swaps and been careful with naming what could anybody have said? I mean personally I love the look of the kit they sell for the chibi-hawk.

[statecircus]

By IP law in the UK, things look in favour of CH.
Will probably end in out of court settlement. GW delayed Thunderwolves and Tervigon due to being at risk of infringing on CH....

[lattd]

By IP law in the UK, things look in favour of CH.
Will probably end in out of court settlement. GW delayed Thunderwolves and Tervigon due to being at risk of infringing on CH....

By IP law in England and Wales GW, would be laughing there way to the bank, as discussed in the case of interlego. But GW have been rather strange about this.