Counts-As: Your own thoughts on the matter, and when it gets taken too far?

[The Madman]

I ain't got a problem with any of them really, though proxy i wouldn't want to see at a tourny (but i don't do competative games anyway ).

EDIT: hell if i didn't accept count-as i'd be a hypocrite.

[Duskstorm]

Personally I have no problem with counts as, until you get people trying to play 2, 3, or even 4 or more codex's with one army. It just stinks of bandwagon jumping, changing codex's when they see others doing well with a different book than they are currently using. The games seem less fun because the players are less invested in the game and their armies/models.

[Akela99]

I am not on the boat with Counts as armies. When I got back into 40k in third edition (skipped 2nd), there was a guy who had a painted marine army, done up in "bone." Any new book or what not became his Bone Wolves, Bone Angels, etc. If an opponent does a conversion army, good for him/her and I am in support. The marine army that is now Space Wolves pisses me off. I have a Space Wolf army. They are Space Wolf models and look like Space Wolves. I also have a marine army. They are Marines! I have an ork army. They are Orks, not IG. If I want an IG army, out will come the airbrush. But I am a hobbyist and I know not everyone in our gaming community shares the hobbyist sentiment.

[Altimit01]

2 and 3 are great. 1 is irritating to play against. I'm rather partial to 2 since sometimes there's a theme you want but the codex for your army doesn't properly express it while another codex fits perfect. As long as it's WYSIWYG I'd be all for all terminator blood angels or all jump pack ravenguard.

[Lord Inquisitor]

2 and 3 for tournaments, while 1 only for friendly games.

[Kaika87]

I am not on the boat with Counts as armies. When I got back into 40k in third edition (skipped 2nd), there was a guy who had a painted marine army, done up in "bone." Any new book or what not became his Bone Wolves, Bone Angels, etc. If an opponent does a conversion army, good for him/her and I am in support. The marine army that is now Space Wolves pisses me off. I have a Space Wolf army. They are Space Wolf models and look like Space Wolves. I also have a marine army. They are Marines! I have an ork army. They are Orks, not IG. If I want an IG army, out will come the airbrush. But I am a hobbyist and I know not everyone in our gaming community shares the hobbyist sentiment.

But see what you're talking about is the category 1 that I brought up, and this is what I think most people think of when they hear counts-as. Basically what I was trying to do is get discussion going about the other types of counts-as armies, although it seems like there's a broad consensus on it.

[Grenadier]

So basically your concern is how they look? If they're going to be X army they have to be painted X army's colors and using X army's bits and unique models?

Some of my Black Templars are comprised of bits from Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Chaos marines, and Black Templars. And not all of them are painted in black, red, and white. One reason my army is full of so many different models, bits, and pieces, is that I can't afford to build a new marine force every time I catch the new army fever. So my army gets done, and redone, and did over, again and again. Right now I'm strongly considering abandoning the Black Templars entirely and converting them all back to a themed vanilla chapter. And one day that too may change whenever the next marine codex comes out that will undo my list.

I am not on the boat with Counts as armies. When I got back into 40k in third edition (skipped 2nd), there was a guy who had a painted marine army, done up in "bone." Any new book or what not became his Bone Wolves, Bone Angels, etc. If an opponent does a conversion army, good for him/her and I am in support. The marine army that is now Space Wolves pisses me off. I have a Space Wolf army. They are Space Wolf models and look like Space Wolves. I also have a marine army. They are Marines! I have an ork army. They are Orks, not IG. If I want an IG army, out will come the airbrush. But I am a hobbyist and I know not everyone in our gaming community shares the hobbyist sentiment.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I guess have to play Horus' advocate. I am not sure where I stand on the specific examples 1,2, and 3, but I know I am growing real tired of "counts as" real fast. If a player manages to get basic WYSIWYG (such as it sounds like most of you on this thread do) and does not codex hop to every flavor of the month, then I am okay with that.

But how often do people take it way too far? I suspect we all know gamers who bend a little leniancy in this regard until it totally breaks. I have seen a tyranid arm with rubber cement pored all over it "counts as" a greater daemon. An unpainted, armless half-torso of a Nightbringer "counts as" a Necron lord. A broken lascannon "counts as" Epidemius (s/b?). A grenade -yes that is right; a tiny, little plastic freaking GRENADE "counts as" an entire Imperial Guard heavy weapon team. If a player can't make a proper model of whatever it is he is trying to represent then he should stick to computer games or board games. What is it about this hobby that attracted these people in the first place? "I want to game against carefully built and painted models, but I want to use a broken lascannon." I am sorry to sound like a snob, but if you have a beat-to-hell rowboat, don't enter a regatta.

Inquistor Inspector: "Commander, where are your troops?"
Lord Count Sass: "Well, see that grenade over there? That there is a weapons team. It's a lascannon or heavy bolter or whatever I need it to be in the middle of a battle."
Inquistor Inspector: Mmmmm...yeah....

[Grenadier]

I've seen a block of wood in the vague shape of a Landraider count as a Landraider. And a Rhino count as a Leman Russ. And the "Torsoless Biker of Sleepy Hollow" count as a Space Marine Chaplain on a bike. Just a pair of legs on a bike! Each turn he had a different weapon. This kind of counting as I object to. But letting Ultramarines count as Imperial Fists? Or so forth? No biggie. Just be sure to give them the right weapons and I'm cool with that. My best counts as moment: getting away with letting an empty can be a drop pod.

[Plowboy22]

2 and 3 for tournaments, while 1 only for friendly games.

What he said!