Necron Entropic Stike vs FNP

[Maelstorm]

My apologies if this has been discussed - I didin't find it on the forum.

If a model with FNP is hit by a Necron unit with entropic strike and suffers a wound, misses his armor save, but makes his FNP save - does he still have armor?

[Nachodragon]

No, both abilities trigger on an unsaved wound. The FNP just allows the model to ignore the wound loss.

[Tynskel]

however, you haven't failed the wound if you haven't lost the wound. You have failed the armor save, instead.

[Maelstorm]

That's how I've played it up until last week - at a new LGS my opponent was sure there was no way to strip armor from any of his 15+ FNP spam troops and 5 FNP Terminators (Blood Angels). I hit his FNP TH/SS terminators with 50 scarab attacks - causing a LOT of wounds, he missed 3 armor saves but made all 3 FNP rolls - and was convinced that they all still had their armor - would not budge on the subject.

Very frustrating that the FAQ didn't spell it out better for FNP Space Monkey players. FNP Blood Angel tears taste the best...

[Tynskel]

well, I understand your frustration, but I believe the rules state failed wound, not failed armor save (I'll have to read it when I get home). Failed wound is when you lost a wound, and FNP actually prevents that.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Feel No Pain: "If a model with this ability suffers an unsaved wound, roll a dice.... On a 4, 5 or 6, the injury is ignored and the model continues fighting."

Entropic Strike: "Any model that suffers one or more unsaved Wounds from a weapon or model with this special rule immediately loses its armour save for the remainder of the battle."

Feel No Pain only happens when the model suffers an "unsaved wound". Entropic Strike takes place immediately after an unsaved wound occurs. The process of events seems to be: Suffer Wound -> Fail Armour/Invulnerable Save -> Lose Armour Save -> Roll for Feel No Pain.

Try explaining it to him with this example: There is a Dark Eldar Archon with a Shadow Field. He has a Pain Token, so has Feel No Pain. He gets shot with a Bolter and fails his Shadow Field save. Shadow Field: "provides a 2+ invulnerable save, but if the save is ever failed, the field is destroyed altogether." If the Archon passes his Feel No Pain roll, his Shadow Field would still be destroyed.

well, I understand your frustration, but I believe the rules state failed wound, not failed armor save (I'll have to read it when I get home). Failed wound is when you lost a wound, and FNP actually prevents that.

It states "Unsaved Wound", and those occur when the Armour/Invulnerable Save is failed.

[Necron2.0]

I agree with the good Reverend. In addition, nothing in FNP says squat about the actual state of the wound. The wound remains unsaved, but the injury is ignored and the model continues fighting. The model remains wounded in excess of what it normally would be able to bear.

[Necron2.0]

He missed 3 armor saves but made all 3 FNP rolls - and was convinced that they all still had their armor - would not budge on the subject.

I should hope you quit the game at this point. I've known too many players who try and game the rules to gain special privileges, and they're quite frankly not worth wasting time on. There are always more worthy opponents in the ranks.

[Tynskel]

oh don't worry, those quotations seem pretty robust. I'll check em out later tonight.

[Tynskel]

I should hope you quit the game at this point. I've known too many players who try and game the rules to gain special privileges, and they're quite frankly not worth wasting time on. There are always more worthy opponents in the ranks.

in this respect, I think many people would have messed up that.
People are used to 'failed = wound'. You make FNP, and thus no longer lost a wound, hence no failure.
What I suggest next time is to actually read the rules. They are quite clear.