Starting Warmachine

[herigonz]

Hey all,

I decided to take the plunge and jump into Warmachine with one of my buddies and we agreed to split the Two Player battle box. He was more keen on going Khador and I decided in favor of the Protectorate of Menoth. All ready I've come across a lot of guides that tell me general starting strategies as well as where to expand (Choir and Vassal seem to be the two easiest ways to expand).

In any case, how competitive is the Protectorate? The one thing I've gotten from reading at various places is that you don't have the same issues of game balance you tend to find in 40K (which is the other game I mostly play). So I don't expect to lose a lot early on because I have an underpowered army as much as I might just need to learn strategy and such.

Are all comer lists the way to go in this game or do people inevitably all gravitate to lists made to assassinate the opposing warcaster/warlock?

[wittdooley]

Hey all,
So I don't expect to lose a lot early on because I have an underpowered army as much as I might just need to learn strategy and such.

Expect to lose often early. Often. It's the nature of the game, unless you happen to have an eidedic memory and can instantly recall every other armies synergies and strategies. Combos will happen that you simply didn't realize could happen. It is what it is.

Are all comer lists the way to go in this game or do people inevitably all gravitate to lists made to assassinate the opposing warcaster/warlock?

Well, for steamrollers you typically bring two lists, so you're probably best off developing two strategies that each work against different things.

[theHman]

Menoth is one of the factions I hate playing against the most.
For some reason I just can't seem to beat them very often.
They've got a tremendous amount of great synergies and combos that really 'f' other armies up.

With that said, the beauty of warmachine is it really doesn't matter which faction you choose to play with, they're ALL freakin' awesome!

The biggest thing you'll come across is learning what other armies can do to kill you. That's how I lost when I first got started. Just didn't know they could do what they did to kill me. But once they pull their sneaky shenanigan, it becomes much harder to beat me with the same trick.

Best of luck to you and your buddy and welcome the best mini wargame!

[DogFog]

I'm in your shoes, too, so I hope you don't mind if I jump in and ask some questions.

I used to play 40k, and recently I've really gotten interested in Warmachine/Hordes. On the one hand, I recognize that the two-player box set is an incredible value, but on the other hand, I don't have someone to go in on it with, and the armies that most interest me are (in order): Everblight, Orboros, Cygnar, Khador. So where would you all recommend I start?

[vorlauf]

I'll be curious to see the answer to the above question. I've been very interested in taking the plunge as well but don't have a lot of money to just start throwing around haphazardly.

[ElectricPaladin]

There are two important differences between Warmachine and 40k:

1) In Warmachine there are remarkably few units/models that categorically "suck." There are a few that are hard to use, and a few that are currently sub-par in the current environment, edition, and FAQ cycle. However, most models will work pretty well, if used properly.
2) In Warmachine, you don't need to do any customization. Whatever you buy is exactly what it is. This isn't 40k, where if you build and paint a dude with one kind of weapon then you've wasted your time and money if it turns out that that weapon sucks. A trencher is a trencher is a trencher.

In other words, if you like the look/style of a model, buy it. You'll find a way to use it. This means that you really can just "take the plunge," buy what you like, and see what happens. You might not be competitive right away... but then again, who is?

The only thing you really need to worry about is the possibility that you will buy a model that doesn't do what you expect it to do, doesn't work the way you want it to with what you've already got, or turns out to be one of those few models that just doesn't really work at all.

For that, I direct your attention to [URL="http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/"]Battle College[/URL]. This is basically the Warmachine/Hordes wiki. Read their faction/model/unit profiles to help you pick your faction, warnoun, and monsters/robots. Battle College hasn't led me astray yet, and I was where you are now about a year ago.

[Dyrnwyn]

In any case, how competitive is the Protectorate? The one thing I've gotten from reading at various places is that you don't have the same issues of game balance you tend to find in 40K (which is the other game I mostly play). So I don't expect to lose a lot early on because I have an underpowered army as much as I might just need to learn strategy and such.

Menoth's game pretty much revolves around layered buff effects making mostly mediocre jacks and infantry amazing, and telling the other factions 'NO U.' They have access to Purification, which shuts down upkeep spells and animi, so they basically can stop other factions from doing their thing.

Are all comer lists the way to go in this game or do people inevitably all gravitate to lists made to assassinate the opposing warcaster/warlock?

There aren't really 'all comer lists' in the 40k sense in Warmachine. Most models are effective, and all warjacks/warbeasts have access to power attacks which make them able to field multiple roles - Trample lets them stomp hordes of infantry, throws and slams let them deal with other jacks. What you will find is that there are three primary strategies - attrition, assassination, and scenario. Attrition and assassination are exactly what they sound like - outlast an opponent's army and grind him into the dirt, or dash in and end the game in a quick kill respectively. Scenario is about being able to move up and claim points, or forcing enemies away. In tournaments, a scenario victory is worth more than a caster kill, but caster kill is easier. Different casters are good at different things.

I'm in your shoes, too, so I hope you don't mind if I jump in and ask some questions.

I used to play 40k, and recently I've really gotten interested in Warmachine/Hordes. On the one hand, I recognize that the two-player box set is an incredible value, but on the other hand, I don't have someone to go in on it with, and the armies that most interest me are (in order): Everblight, Orboros, Cygnar, Khador. So where would you all recommend I start?

If you have no one who is currently interested, the tw0-player box might be better, as then you can have two forces so you can loan one to a prospective opponent. Personally, I'd look into the rulebooks and talk up your friends. Convince them to try it - the battleboxes are only $50, and that's not much of an investment if they're already into 40k or WFB. If you suceed in talking them into trying it, and you like Everblight, buy the Everblight battlebox. All the current edition battleboxes come with quickstart rules which give you the core mechanics for Warmachine and the rules governing your warlock/warbeasts or warcaster/warjacks, as well as the stats for the other battleboxes for Warmachine or Hordes respectively. You won't need the full rulebook until you start moving beyond the intro games with battleboxes and start including units, cavalry or solos.

[herigonz]

Thanks for all the quality advice. I definitely figured I'd lose more often than not at the beginning, albeit not for the combo reason specifically. I've been watching battlereports here and there online (I tend to just fire them up while I paint mini's) so hopefully that will help soften the lack of knowledge.

Having said that, I know I'm more likely to learn when it's my face that gets stomped in rather than some random dude on teh internetz.

It is refreshing to know that what I buy to build is what I buy to build. I think there is some interchangeability with some of the jacks (universally there are heavy jacks and light jacks I guess). Is it possible to just buy the arms to make one type of heavy mech another or is generally a dumb idea? I assume the light jack arms don't look right if I tried putting them on a heavy jack.

I think the fact that a battlebox is only $50 (less on the discounters) is great. Everywhere I go, I hear about how you always get a relatively great caster and/or jacks in those boxes. I personally bought the 2 person battle box initially because even if I didn't expand, it provided 2 equal forces to play. Definitely getting a friend to go in on it makes it better. I liked the fluff behind Cygnar but gravatated to Menoth in the end.

When I think that an entire starter set is worth the same cost of a single Assault Marine Squad, it's hard to argue against giving this game a go.

[ElectricPaladin]

It is refreshing to know that what I buy to build is what I buy to build. I think there is some interchangeability with some of the jacks (universally there are heavy jacks and light jacks I guess). Is it possible to just buy the arms to make one type of heavy mech another or is generally a dumb idea? I assume the light jack arms don't look right if I tried putting them on a heavy jack.

The plastic 'jack kit comes with all the arms for all its factions 'jacks of that chasis. So the "Cygnar Heavy" box includes everything you need for the Ironclad, Cyclone, and Defender, but not the Hammersmith or Centurion, for example. You can magnetize them pretty easily, if you want - I've seen it before.

[herigonz]

Ah that makes more sense. I thought that since everything else was sold in individual kits that the heavy jacks would all be too but it does seem like the plastic kit is what the magnetizing is meant to help with.

Do people normally field multiple jacks of the same type? Or I guess does it vary from strategy to strategy? I have to admit that I've seen the most for Khador so their warjacks are the ones I'm most familiar with.

Is the heavy warjack "plastic" kit actually plastic or resin like the other stuff?