The Imperium's Stance on Homosexuality?

[Malok1013]

Those models sound interesting. Do you have pictures of yours?

[Grenadier]

I've tried taking pictures of them but they always come out blurry and its hard to see detail. From what I understand you need to have some kind of special gizmo or setting with a camera in order to take good pics of models.

[eldargal]

That is actually a very simplistic interpretation of the 40k universe. It is a dystopian view of the future, not a twisted reflection of our own times. It is perhaps one of the reasons it is so popular. The

What Hive Mind said. Also, seeing as the Grim Dark Future of the 41st Millennium is a total amplification of the woes that we have in "RL", it's probable that there are thousands of homophobic planets. I known for a fact that the Imperium is at least xenophobic.

[Lucidum]

I actually brought up a similar discussion on the conclave boards regarding transgender characters. I figure that, as long as someone is performing their duties in the name of the imperium, gender and sexuality are unimportant. Look at Callidus Assassins for example, their job description practically demands that they change gender often using polymorphine to fulfill their missions. Plus, Space Marines take a great deal of background and inspiration from ancient roman and greek society... hint hint.

[Malok1013]

Makes sense about putting the job first, and as long as that gets done, who cares about the rest. Good point with the Callidus Assassins. But regarding the Space Marines, while they do take a great deal of inspiration from the Greeks and Romans, don't they have a vow of chastity or something? I have never heard of an Astartes having a sexual relationship with anything. More of them probably have the desire to shoot someone than have sex with them. Not harking on Astartes though, they are pretty cool guys.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Given that the Imperium is a combination of all the worst and most horrible aspects of human society, I would imagine homosexuality would be viewed much as it is in any fundamenalist theocracy - as an abomination. I mean, let's be real, any reason to hate is a good one as far as the Imperium is concerned. If we still have homophobia now, why would the Imperium be any different? It just wouldn't.

I imagine that for the vast majority of LGBT people, life would be very much like living in some of the African nations where homosexuality is punishable by death. If you're a gay man, you'll be living a life of self-hatred and fear. If you're a woman, it'll be the same, only with the added horror of the ever-present threat of "corrective rape".

Now, certain individuals will get away with it; the monied classes, Rogue Traders (who do whatever the hell they like anyway), etc... But for the vast majority of LGBT humanity, life will be that little bit shorter and more painful than the rest.

As far as gay marines, well - they have increased levels of testosterone, so an increased sex drive. Of course, they channel that through an ascetic regime into anger and hatred (just like in real-life, repressed sexuality is an excellent way to create someone very capable of hatred and viciousness). If we assume that the proportion of gay men in real-life applies to marines, you're looking at about 2.5% - 5% of the chapter being gay.

How would they view such brothers? Well, I imagine there would be some very strong "romantic friendships", as the Victorians used to call them. Two marines very much romantically in love but without any sexual acts going on. Because sexuality isn't about having sex. And anyway, how many war films have you seen where one soldier cradles his dying comrade in his arms? A really intense friendship and romantic love are no different at the end of the day. I imagine there would be a great many gay marines in truly loving relationships, without ever defining them as such.

The IG? Well, if you're on active service, I doubt you give too much of a frak. Your life expectancy can be measured in minutes, so you have more to worry about. I imagine it's like you'd expect - there'll be the occasional incident where some bullies frag a "queer" without any comeback, but for the most part they just get on and do their job.

The Sisters? Probably the same as the marines, but with slightly more religious mania about it. Watch Ken Russell's "The Devils". I reckon that's how it works in the Ecclesiarchy.


...

The interesting thing for me was that I have a gay dreadnought.

Now, I've posted him before. Storywise, I'd recently been watching a lot of Ian MacKellan, and so the Dreadnought had a story influenced by "Gods And Monsters"; originally Brother Amatis was gay, and fell deeply in love with another of his battle-brothers. The two fought bravely side-by-side through hundreds of crusades...until his partner was killed. Within the hour, Amatis had fallen to the Black Rage, and was consigned to a Dreadnought as the only way to contain hs fury. He carries the skull of his former lover in a gilded box, embellished with a seal of filial devotion swearing that when Amatis falls, he and his love will be together in death.

here's the detail shot of the box.



I got a lot of replies along the lines of "Gays? In my Marines?!! That's not right! That's not fluff! You can't have that!"

Frankly, it's my army, and yes I can. It's not the whole army; it's one Dreadnought, and if seeing your lover killed wouldn't send you into the arms of the Death Company, I don't know what would.

Honestly, there is a definite undercurrent of quiet homophobia within the community. People don't seem to mind it all that much in real-life (or if they do, they're quiet about it) but when it comes to their escape fantasy? Forget it. For some reason, it's easier to believe in Gork, Mork, Ork technology that runs on the power of wishing, psychic super soldiers, fully automatic hand-held rocket launchers, religious miracles being so commonplace they become an army's special power, daemons, interdimensional gateways, interstellar travel, psychic monstrosities that can consume whole worlds and exoskeletal baby-carriers, rather than the notion that two people of the same gender might meet and fall in love.

Despite the fact that last one happens all the time and the others never have.

[Mr. Furious]

Honestly, there is a definite undercurrent of quiet homophobia within the community. People don't seem to mind it all that much in real-life (or if they do, they're quiet about it) but when it comes to their escape fantasy? Forget it. For some reason, it's easier to believe in Gork, Mork, Ork technology that runs on the power of wishing, psychic super soldiers, fully automatic hand-held rocket launchers, religious miracles being so commonplace they become an army's special power, daemons, interdimensional gateways, interstellar travel, psychic monstrosities that can consume whole worlds and exoskeletal baby-carriers, rather than the notion that two people of the same gender might meet and fall in love.

Despite the fact that last one happens all the time and the others never have.

Well said.

And...Cool Dread.

[eldargal]

Much of the hommophobia in modern societies comes from our religions, and there is nothing that we know of in the Imperial Creed that sasy anything about hommosexuality. It would be mere speculation to assume they have the same obsessions over sexuality as we do. Some planets may, it is also a mistake to think of the Imperium as a monoculture.

[Hive Mind]

Homophobia stems from idiocy, not religion. It just so happens that idiocy and religion often go hand in hand and so it looks like homophobia is related to religion. I know many religious people who aren't homophobic and I know many non-religious people who are who happen to also be idiots.

If there are idiots in the 41st millenium (and there must be) there will be homophobia.

[eldargal]

Right, because the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah totally isn't a potential justification for anti-homsexual attitudes. Of course ifiocy comes into it, but you are deluded if you think religious tenets don't come into it.