Sisters of Battle Pentient Engine LOS and Rage

[Elfy]

In the core rules book, it says (main book, page 72) when Walkers fire their weapons, they pivot to face their target and their weapons have a 45 degree arc of LOS.

In the Chaos Space Marines FAQ (V1.1), it's stated, when working out which targets are visible for the Fire Frenzy, that the Chaos Dreadnought's LOS is limited to 45 degrees from its weapons.

Having to pivot to fire on a target, and the clairification on the Chaos Dreadnought, implies that a Walker's LOS is limited to 45 degrees on it's front. Turning to keep an undesirable enemy out of a 45 degree LOS would allow better control of the Penitent Engine in exchange for a higher likely hood of exposing it's weaker backside to enemy fire. So it wouldn't be without risk, but I cannot find anything that explicitly says that walkers LOS is limited to 45 degrees...or that it's a full 360 degrees for that matter.

So my rules questions is: Is the LOS for Rage suffered by a Sisters of Battle Pentient Engine limited to a 45 degree front view of the Penitent Engine, or a full 360 degrees?

[BaileyBankai]

its only the weapon that has 45 degree line of sight (pg59) which means that the chaos dreadnought can only fire the weapon at that which the weapon can see, i think walkers have 360 los like all models, so you will rage towards nearest enemy, even behind you.

[SeattleDV8]

its only the weapon that has 45 degree line of sight (pg59) which means that the chaos dreadnought can only fire the weapon at that which the weapon can see, i think walkers have 360 los like all models, so you will rage towards nearest enemy, even behind you.

Do you have a rule that states that vehicles have a 360 LOS?
No, it doesn't exist.
The only thing we are told is that a vehicle's weapons give it it's LOS.

Look at the Chaos Fire Frenzy rule

At the beginning of the Shooting phase it must pivot on the spot toward the closest visible unit (friend or foe!) and fire all of its weapons against it

and then the Rage USR

...units subject to Rage must always move as fast as possible towards the closest visible enemy

They both have the same wording and as such should be treated the same.

and then the CSM FAQ

Q: When working out which targets are visible to a
Chaos Dreadnought suffering from a Fire Frenzy result,
are you limited to those units within the 45 degree line
of sight of its weapons? (p40)
A: Yes.

Only things within the walkers 45 degree Arc of fire are 'visible' to the walker.

Granted if the walker pivots during his move and brings an enemy unit into his LOS he would then have to move toward that unit.

[thecactusman17]

You must pivot because you must bring your weapon so that the target is covered by the firing arc. The firing arc and the line of sight are two different things. You can have Los without having a firing arc. Los is always 360 degrees.

[SeattleDV8]

No, the FAQ has defined what is 'visible', the pivoting argument doesn't work as the Fire Frenzy rules even mention the pivot.
The only thing that is visible to a vehicle is something in it's weapons LOS.

Personally I agree that Arc of Fire should be different from LOS, but this ruling has defined them as the same.

Again, please come up with a quote for the 360 LOS rule.

[BaileyBankai]

think i would agree now actually i didnt know it was worded like that in chaos. if its like that for choas and the wording is pretty much the same as rage, its probably ruled like that.

[Elfy]

I don’t know the right answer (which, of course, is why I posed the question), but here is some additional ‘food for thought’.

In the core book it says (main book, page 16) that LOS must be traced from the eyes of the model. A pair of eyes has roughly a 180 degree LOS. The Penitent Engine does have eyes since it has a Sister Repentia pilot 'crucified' to the front of it. So a third possibility could be that it has a 180 degree LOS, which would make it even more likely to expose its weaker backside while trying to turn away from any undesirable targets.

The core book (page 72) also says that walkers move the same way as infantry, but then goes on to say that a walker has a facing (like any other vehicle). By this, a walker would have a 90 degree front facing. So a forth possibility is that it has a 90 degree LOS.

So it could be argued that it has a 45 degree LOS, a 90 degree LOS, a 180 degree LOS, or a 360 degree LOS, it seems, and I can’t find anything definitive. So maybe it’s one of those things that require a ‘house ruling’ until as such time as an official answer comes out? Ambiguities in rules are frustrating =/

[dannyat2460]

I have only ever known LOS as a 360 yes the new fire frenzy faq clouds that by saying it can only fire at the ones withing the 45 line of sight from the weapons,

this required further thought.

<we can always hope it was an idiot that wrote the FAQ and will be changed>

[dreadnaughtguy]

I would treat rage just like the fire frenzy rule because of the wording. Both are intended to show the loss of controll and the go strait forward reguardless of hazards issues with these units.