2kpt Space Wolves competetive list advice

[Fowlplaychiken]

Am trying to create a balanced list for the new Wolves dex. I have one or two old models lying around and will probably pick them up again (used to play wolves in 3rd). Advice or suggestions/opinions? Thanks!


HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane (mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller)(mounted in LR)
Total: 100pts

TROOPS:
Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10) (mounted in LR)
1x Meltagun: free
1x flamer: free
Power Fist
Total: 175pts

Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Powerfist
Drop pod
Total: 185pts

Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
Flamer
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 195pts

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
Flamer
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 195pts

ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

Wolf Guard Pack (x5)
1x Terminator armor (GH Pack 1 LR)
1x Terminator armor + cyclone missile (GH Pack 2)
1x Power Weapon, (Blood claw pack 1)
1x ,Power Weapon (Blood Claw pack 2)
1x Power Weapon (Scout pack 1)
Total: 180pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Land Raider Crusader: 250pts
Multi Melta
Extra Armor
Total: 275pts

GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts

[Chumbalaya]

Ragnar Blackmane (mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Seems like overkill, and not having Eternal Warrior hurts.

Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller)(mounted in LR)
Total: 100pts

Storm Caller doesn't work on vehicles, I'd pick the 24" DS/skimmer/jump pack doom power.

Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10) (mounted in LR)
1x Meltagun: free
1x flamer: free
Power Fist
Total: 175pts

If you're going for 10, must get 2 meltas. A powerfist on a model with 1 attack is so not worth it. GH maxed on meltas are NOT meant for combat (at least not against anything good), stay inside and pew pew out of your Rhino.

Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Powerfist
Drop pod
Total: 185pts

Again with the 1 attack powerfist, you aren't impressing anyone. I bet you'll miss that 2nd melta.

Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
Flamer
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 195pts

Yipee for WS3 and 1 attack powerfists. Blood Clots are fail.

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
Flamer
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 195pts

Yipee for WS3 and 1 attack powerfists. Blood Clots are fail.

ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

Show up, annoy something, die horribly.

Wolf Guard Pack (x5)
1x Terminator armor (GH Pack 1 LR)
1x Terminator armor + cyclone missile (GH Pack 2)
1x Power Weapon, (Blood claw pack 1)
1x ,Power Weapon (Blood Claw pack 2)
1x Power Weapon (Scout pack 1)
Total: 180pts

No high S attacks out of the GH unit apart from the charge, cyclone and melta don't mix, Blood Claws need PF, not PW, and Wolf Scouts don't need a PW (combi-melta, chainfist! Oh wait, no more termies, I guess melta bombs, hooray for nerfing!

Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Pricey for 2 lazor shots and some useless HBs. Still too static.

Land Raider Crusader: 250pts
Multi Melta
Extra Armor
Total: 275pts

Only good thing you picked so far :P

It's a mish mash of stuff, nothing optimized and just kinda thrown together. If you're crazy about Ragnar, just go all out and stick him with Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters are not great in combat. BCs are trash, GH should just sit in Rhinos or DPs and melt things. You need units to knock out transports so you can chomp on the gooey bits inside, so TLAC or MM Dreads, dakka Preds, ML Fangs (they're dirt cheap, otherwise I wouldn't bother), Typhoon or MM Speeders, and so on. Add in doggies so you can lock up assaults quicker.

[Fowlplaychiken]

Seems like overkill, and not having Eternal Warrior hurts.



Storm Caller doesn't work on vehicles, I'd pick the 24" DS/skimmer/jump pack doom power.



If you're going for 10, must get 2 meltas. A powerfist on a model with 1 attack is so not worth it. GH maxed on meltas are NOT meant for combat (at least not against anything good), stay inside and pew pew out of your Rhino.



Again with the 1 attack powerfist, you aren't impressing anyone. I bet you'll miss that 2nd melta.



Yipee for WS3 and 1 attack powerfists. Blood Clots are fail.



Yipee for WS3 and 1 attack powerfists. Blood Clots are fail.



Show up, annoy something, die horribly.



No high S attacks out of the GH unit apart from the charge, cyclone and melta don't mix, Blood Claws need PF, not PW, and Wolf Scouts don't need a PW (combi-melta, chainfist! Oh wait, no more termies, I guess melta bombs, hooray for nerfing!



Pricey for 2 lazor shots and some useless HBs. Still too static.



Only good thing you picked so far :P

It's a mish mash of stuff, nothing optimized and just kinda thrown together. If you're crazy about Ragnar, just go all out and stick him with Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters are not great in combat. BCs are trash, GH should just sit in Rhinos or DPs and melt things. You need units to knock out transports so you can chomp on the gooey bits inside, so TLAC or MM Dreads, dakka Preds, ML Fangs (they're dirt cheap, otherwise I wouldn't bother), Typhoon or MM Speeders, and so on. Add in doggies so you can lock up assaults quicker.

1)Cant afford the 2nd melta. Both those assault weapons are free in this configuration. Dont have 5 pts to spare. Also, ragnar is awesome:-p and I know SC dosent work on vehicles. Its Useful after disembark.

2) Power fist + everyone else in the command squad gets +d3 attacks for ragnars ability. Still, swapped all fists to power weapons and all power weapons (save scouts, who cant) to fists, so that the wolf guard with more attacks are rocking the fists. Same points cost. new list below for reference.

3) There are 9 in the squad + a wolfguard. You cant have 10 ioin the squad and put it in a transport unless you have no wolfguard (so must have ld 8 and lose the extra power weapon). With 10 in the squad and the extra meltaweapon you have no sarg with power weapon and LD 8.

4), yea, one base power fist attack isnt too impressive. I will swap to a power weapon and give the wolf guard sarg the fist.

5) ws3 = wounding on 4 vs most enemies. As does ws4. For a model getting counterattack and +2 attacks on the charge instead of +1, They are cheap and killey. 4 attacks each on the charge. Your silly if you think blood "clots" are fail:-p

6) Wolf scout squad comes in turn 2-3, shoots, assaults with 3 power weapons. More than annoying when supporting a ragnar disembark turn 3. The drop pod is also support for ragnar.

ide write more but I g2g back to work:-d any real criticism?

[Fowlplaychiken]

To continue:

Longfangs: 2 lascannon and 3 heavy bolter for 155pts is not pricey. They can split fire...2 lascannons from each squad fire at armor targets, heavy bolters at light vehicles or infantry. HB guys also soak wounds.

Pretty much your only point of criticism I agree with is that I should put power weapons on each squad and give their wolfguard leader a fist instead.

[Fowlplaychiken]

fixed list:

HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane(mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller)(mounted in LR)
Total: 100pts

TROOPS:
Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10)(mounted in LR)
1x Meltagun
1x flamer
Power Weapon
Total: 165pts

Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Power Weapon
Drop pod
Total: 175pts

Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
Flamer
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 185pts

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
Flamer: free
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 185pts

ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

Wolf Guard Pack (x5)
1x Terminator armor, power fist (GH Pack 1 LR)
1x Terminator armor + cyclone missile, power fist: (GH Pack 2)
1x Power fist, (Blood claw pack 1)
1x ,Power fist (Blood Claw pack 2)
1x Power weapon(Scout pack 1)
Total: 220pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Land Raider Crusader
Multi Melta
Extra Armor:
Total: 275pts

GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts

[Chumbalaya]

1) GH aren't good in combat, that's the whole thing. A 1 attack PF doesn't impress, even with extra attacks charging. If you swap for PW you don't get any high S attacks to knock out Dreads or ICs. WG, on the other hand, smash face.

2) Better, but you may as well run Wolf Guard to get more punch. GH are for cheap meltas and scoring.

3) Bingo, which is why it's not that good.

4) Better.

5) WS3 means anything else hits you on a 3+. A bunch of S4 attacks doesn't kill reliably, you need the fists and wolf claws to do the damage, hence Wolf Guard. Blood Clots are fail because of WS3, impetuous, and needing expensive characters to get any sort of use out of them. And why in Russ's name are the assault troops in a Rhino?

6) They'll show up and get dead. Wolf scouts, like any other outflankers, are simply too easy to counter with something as simple as an infantry screen or just moving.

7) The only thing worthwhile in the unit are the lascannons, and even then 4 lascannon shots at BS4 isn't all that impressive. That's a 8/27 chance to destroy a Rhino, with all 4. Half that if it has cover (free smokes). Really not that great.

The second list is more of the same, meh. Something like Ragnar+WG in a LRC, 2-3 units of GH in Rhinos, 2 Podding Dreads (1 podding GH unit), Dakka Preds, and Wolves would work better. More firepower to down transports, a nice Land Raider barrelling down somebody's throat, and a more cohesive focus overall. Add another LRC if possible, filling it with BCs and a Wolf Priest wouldn't be terrible, though I'd rather see WG.

[Fowlplaychiken]

The list you describe hasnt enough troops. Also, I did switch the GH to have power weapons. Their Wolf Guard Leaders have fists instead. Same points cost. As for WS 3, they will strike simultaniously in most cases. SO long as your not being stupid and letting yourself get charged, you will usually plow the enemy. Just had a test battle, and the BC squad charged a squad of 10 CSM. 2 had melta, 1 powerfist. Pretty standard. Killed the squad with 6 guys remaining, went on to charge another csm squad. All but 1 (the wolf guard sarg) died, as did 3 CSM from the next squad. Further, their effectiveness when charging is increased when using them in concert with ragnar's howl for a turn (furious charge). If needed I can drop 1 scout and give a combi melta to each wolf guard leader from the 3 squads that only have 1 special weapon each. Tbh however, dosent seem to be needed.

Longfangs give you 5 heavy weapons for 155 points. Compare that to most heavy units (pred, whatever) and its deff a good buy.

The scouts and drop pod squad work together to support ragnar, who is also supported by the rhino's with blood claws, flanking. Hammer and anvil, with the long fangs shooting whatever may threaten ragnar before he reaches melee. I do agree that wolf guard squads are uber. I disagree that blood claws are not worth the points (15pts for a squadwith frag, krak, cc, pistol, melta, power sword, power fist,counterattack, and +2 attacks on the charge. compare that with the two closest equivelants (basic space marine, basic chaos space marine) and its a good buy. Support it with another squad of BC, or with ragnar and his uber squad of doom (raganar and his command squad took on abbadon and 4 completely tooled CC termi's and won in my test game) and its deadly, tbh. Ragnar and every squad within 12 inches is geting a 5+ inv from the rune priest on turns I dont have a high priority target for JOTW. I think what it comes down to chumb is you play your armies differently than I do, and so dislike the options ive taken. Your the kind of guy who would field 4 squads of tooled out wolf guard with Grimnar and a single drop pod dread (which is 2kpts btw). Such a force would be deadly but have serious issues with certain armies (IG, Salamanders come to mind) Appreciate the imput, however. I did modify the list slightly since last you saw it; dropped the power fist from the command squad wolf guard (ragnar has melta bombs and everyone has krak grenades anyway, and ragnar is str 6 on the charge) in favor of melta guns in both BC squads instead of flamers. May drop a scout power sword for combi melta's in both BC squads too.

[Fowlplaychiken]

In essence you've argued that the only things in the entire SW codex worth fielding are GH, grimnar, and Wolfguard:-p and that any list using some of the other interesting stuff is worthless:-p

[Nikephoros]

In essence you've argued that the only things in the entire SW codex worth fielding are GH, grimnar, and Wolfguard:-p and that any list using some of the other interesting stuff is worthless:-p

Its going to break people's hearts when they find out that Space Wolves are now a shooty army.

[pdelair]

fixed list:

HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane(mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller)(mounted in LR)
Total: 100pts

I personally wouldn't user Storm Caller for this choice. Since its only a cover save (not +5 inv all the time) it has limited use for a squad that should be in combat as much as possible.

TROOPS:
Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10)(mounted in LR)
1x Meltagun
1x flamer
Power Weapon
Total: 165pts

The second melta is free. Dual flamers or dual melta. Also MotW is an excellent buy for the cost and should be applied here. I personally would have kept the fist here. WG have so many other CC options that I don't think its worth taking what is a standard CC wep with them. Now, I would also move the Rune priest to another squad, drop the WG with them back to PA, take a frostblade and bolt pistol/plasma pistol. Furious charge with Frost Blades is coming in at I5 STR6. By themselves Ragnar and the WG member are going to maul the bulk of most units. Also, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a GH unit led by a terminator can't Sweeping Advance a fleeing unit. LRR instead of LRC.

Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Power Weapon
Drop pod
Total: 175pts

MoTW, Rune Priest, and PA WG here.

Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
Flamer
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 185pts

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
Flamer: free
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 185pts

At 10 men or under I think Skyclaws are the better Bloodclaw option now. non-skyclaws should be 15 men strong coming out of a LRC.

ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

WG for scouts should take a PF. Plenty of I4 S4 power weapon attacks already and a PF can really make a diff when that Meltagun misses or you want to hit something like Broadside squad. 9 out of 10 times coming from OBEL these guys will probably make their points even with a short lifespan.

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

You either lose heavy weapons or give these guys an identity crisis once you start taking wounds. My personal feeling is that LF's are best suited to the anti-personel type weapons. I would roll one HB squad and some kind of tanks instead.

Land Raider Crusader
Multi Melta
Extra Armor:
Total: 275pts

GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts

Not a bad choice, but don't forget the redeemer option.