Heresy of the highest degree...

[The Plastic Surgeon]

It's called Codex Creep people, it happened with Daemons for WFB and it will happen again with Skaven right after Space Wolves.

[Aux]

I really don't look at changes for the Legions to be necessary rules-wise, because Chaos Marines are still doing okay. I do miss the Legions themselves, as the codex has gone to spotlight the renegades over the multi-thousands strong Legions.
Personally, the Thousand Sons troops as they are presented are okay, though I would like to see some more themed powers based towards Tzeentch, or at least extra abilities such as Tzeentchian daemons have (We Are Legion, etc.). I don't see them needing an extra wound or any of the above changes because with their outstanding armour saves and awesome bolters, their point values are justified. If you are running a true Thousand Sons army, there shouldn't be bikers or jump troops as the robots would be strained to use things efficiently. Instead, deep-striking squads of Thousand Sons via magical ritual could be used for fast attack. Cult terminators would be nice to see for a change, as would small triads or tetragons of sorcerers with outstanding powers, like a souped-up psychic choir. Possessed vehicles and auto-passing of psychic tests sound good, especially with a limited army build-up.

[Prometheus]

Having read the advanced copy of the Space Wolf codex I have decided that I am willing to watch our local Space Wolf player (who just so happens to be a powergamer) play against another local gamer (or as I will call him the sacrifical lamb). If I beleive the codex to be "broken" i will simply not game against Space Wolves until they get a FAQ to newter them. If I think I can beat the codex with either my Plague Marines or my Tyranids I will give it a shot. But to be honest I'm thinking they are not going to be fair at all on the table top.

A word on "fluff" in codex as a building block for rules. I would love to believe that GW sits down with some of thier writers, game designers and the like and brainstorms ideas about each codex before writting it. I would like to think that, but sadlly I simply believe this not to be true. I assume occasionally the codex is left up to one or two people to write, others to draw images for, and no doubt becuase of deadlines and the like no one spends the time to go through and catch little things that two people might find fine (such as Space Wolves having such good psychic abilities that you will see one in every list) but the average gamerinstantly notices as being against the "fluff" of the army.

I see making codexs have tactics to deal with the current metagame scene, its not like GW wants to write a codex no one will buy, but guys come on it is getting out of hand. Make the Wolves monsters in combat, give them special rules that make them more wolf like, but do not give them some of the best psychic powers in the game and a unit riding wolves (which just look silly, in my opinion). Sadly the more I play this game and the more codexcs that come out the more I am in favor of GW switching to a living rulebook system. But for now I can rest on the idea that I will simply not play against codexs that simply make one sense. Whats next Dark Eldar that have Feel No Pain, all Armour 14 tanks, and more heavy weapons then IG?

[Schnitzel]

Whats next Dark Eldar that have Feel No Pain, all Armour 14 tanks, and more heavy weapons then IG?

Silence! Don't give GW any ideas! :O

[Kanaellars]

Having read the advanced copy of the Space Wolf codex I have decided that I am willing to watch our local Space Wolf player (who just so happens to be a powergamer) play against another local gamer (or as I will call him the sacrifical lamb). If I beleive the codex to be "broken" i will simply not game against Space Wolves until they get a FAQ to newter them. If I think I can beat the codex with either my Plague Marines or my Tyranids I will give it a shot. But to be honest I'm thinking they are not going to be fair at all on the table top.

Im sorry if I am out of order, but does anyone else read this and get an image of a tear stained 5 year old face, mumbling "I'm only gonna play if you let me win."

Sorry.

[DarkLink]

No, I agree with you Kanaellars. Especially since he says he plays Plague Marines.
A FAQ will clear up a few issues like the "identical psychic powers" and anything else that will crop up (or at least it hopefully will), but it won't change a good unit into an average unit. And the SW codex has a bunch of good units (but a lot fewer options than the vanilla Marine 'dex).

And there is no way to accurately tell how "broken" a codex is from a single game with a powergamer vs a casual player.

[Skragger]

But paper plates in hurricanes look purdy, especially the shiny ones :P
You're right though, for a guy who has studied and worshipped the warp for over ten millenia you would have thought he could do more than shoot a static charge from his finger, and at least be able to pass a pyschic test automatically because he has been a psycher before most rune priests started forgetting to shave.

Those ten millenia he's studied the exact time and amount of rubbing his feet on the carpet to cause some serious (minor) pain, so dont knock it..

Aw, who am I kidding.. my poor Sons..

[Skragger]

Exactly. Inconsistancy is the key term here.

They shouldnt have ANY psychic powers. Maybe some anti psychic wargear, like a psychic hood or something. But cancelling ANY power on the roll of a +3? Thats better than any hood ive ever seen. Hell, thats better than what ELDRAD brings to the table!!!

what the HELL, GW? Marines who hate psykers have the most powerful psykers? The supposed dominant psyker forces (thousand sons and eldar) get stuck with pitiful little tiddly-winks?

Ahriman should be able to kick the psychic CRAP out of anyone except eldrad...even then, it'd be a duel for the ages. So some dumb bastid space wolf comes along and shows everyone else up?

I always thought SW were similar to Khorne, in the sense that they abhorr psychic powers

[sketchesofpayne]

I always thought SW were similar to Khorne, in the sense that they abhorr psychic powers

So did I!

[mountaincycle661]

ARRGH! Thats exactly the point! They DO abhor psychic powers! They DO!!

This is why i started this whole thread. Because an army that has a well-known reputation for hating psykers has some of the most ridiculous psychic powers!

IT MAKES NO SENSE!

And i agree with the previous poster in saying that I, too, doubt that GW really sits down and thinks things out with a large portion of staff. It would make sense to bring in your art directors, codex authors, playtesters (hell, even a local gamer or two from the shop) and just bounce ideas off each other until you get things settled.

DO NOT LET SOME DUMB BASTID SPACE WOLF FANBOY WRITE AN ENTIRE CODEX SO HE CAN KEEP HIS ARMY RIDICULOUSLY OVERPOWERED.

I will play a few games against the space wolves to truly determine where they stand in terms of cheesiness. If they arent so bad, then i will make it a point to massacre their dumbasses time and time again, utterly humiliating them. (they are my nemisis after all) But if they are broken, i will just flatly refuse to play against them. Period.