Moving on from the table edge, into models...

[Nightspawn]

" as if they had been positioned just off the board edge in the previous turn and moved as normal" -This means that you cannot come anywhere near the table edge where an enemy is that close. So your starting point is gone.

"Just off the board edge" would be to close so you would not be able to start there.

If you have no starting point you cannot deploy.

Show me some FAQ or anything that says you can.

[DarkLink]

Wrong.

See, you might want to actually read the rules to justify your argument. The "just off the table edge" is just shorthand we players might use, it's not what the rules actually say.

All the rules say is that you may move onto the board from any point on the table edge, measuring from table edge. It's kind of the same thing as if you placed the model just off the board, and then moved it, but that's not what the rules actually say.

Your argument relies on the idea that you place the models off the board edge, then move them. This is not what happens. You simply measure from the table edge and move on. That move can't normally take you within 1" of an enemy model, but in the case of Jump Infantry it does not matter.

[Nightspawn]

You are surely misguided and can't show any proof of what you say is correct. I have given examples and rules quotes. Just because you want the rule to work your way because you would lose your squad doesn't mean anything.

Give me a ruling from a tournament venue like adepticon. You have nothing. Check with your local GW store and they will tell you the same.

[thecactusman17]

Rules quotes from what? We have quoted rules. Further, there has never to my knowledge EVER been an occasion where jump infantry or skimmers were disallowed from hopping over an enemy unit from the table edge. However, there was an infamous "victory" caused when a non-skimmer bike army was prevented from entering the table by careful positioning of an infiltrating Kroot army.

The models never exist prior to coming on from the table edge. Thus, they don't worry about being within 1" of the table edge. Further, the rules specifically state that you measure from the board edge without restriction, without any rules preventing you from starting there. Ending movement within 1" of an enemy, however, still remains as a limitation so you might not be able to jump clean over a dense pack of Orks or Guardsmen.

If there's anything that your rules would make illegal, it would be that enemy models could not choose to end their movement next to a table edge if the opposing player could also choose or be randomly required to come on from that edge, because according to your logic theoretically they would exist 1" away from all table edges simultaneously, sort of like Schroedingers cat.

[SeattleDV8]

Again, how do we measure to a unit that is off of the table?
You can't therefore you can only measure to those units once they have hit the board.
In the case given, infantry and non-tank vehicles (and Bikes) could not move though the unit because they would be moving within 1" of an enemy.
Tanks could tank shock.
Skimmers, jetpacks and jet bikes all have this rule "they can move over all other models and all terrain freely(BRB pg. 52,pg.53 & pg.71)
Likewise there is no rule against starting your movement within 1".
You are not allowed to move within 1" of an enemy but if you are already within 1" you may move away.
BRB pg.63 Assaulting Vehicles

The vehicle and the enemy remain where they are and are free to simply move away in future turns

Your one quote doesn't say what you think it does. (Inconceivable!)
There is nothing stopping the jumpers, skimmers or jetbikes from starting at the tables edge, even with enemy models lined up along it.

[Tynskel]

hahah. I like the Princess Bride reference. Nice and subtle, big man, Andre.

[DarkLink]

You are surely misguided...

Oh, is that so? And don't call me Shirley.

...and can't show any proof of what you say is correct.

We'll see about that, in case you've ignored all the other posts here. Your argument is based on the unfounded presumption that models are first "placed" just off the board edge, then moved on. Thing is, "as if" does not necessarily mean "exactly the same". It means "similar to". And since you seem like the type to contest this, [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/as%20if"]Merriam-Webster dictionary [/URL]online uses a number of example sentences that are nonsensical if you assume that the phrase "as if" means "exactly the same thing": "it seemed as if the day would never end", or "he ran as if he were chased as a ghost". The day doesn't actually end, nor is he being chased by a ghost, it's just similar to those situations.

To rephrase the rule with equivalent wording, their movement is measured from the board edge, similarly to how they would if you physically placed them there, but it does not necessitate that they actually physically start there.

At no other point in the rules do models off the table exist on the table. You cannot measure range to them, you cannot draw LOS from them, you cannot use aura abilities with them, and you cannot use things like psychic powers with them. They do not exist until they take that first step onto the board.

Your argument relies on one specific interpretation of a phrase that can be taken to mean something else that does not support your argument. If you cannot see the hole in your argument, then only an English teacher can help you.

Incidentally, there is an in-game example of this precise issue. A unit with counter attack gains +1A "as if" they had assaulted that turn. By your argument, they would then benefit from furious charge, if they had it. GW, however, clarifies that this is not the case in the Space Wolves FAQ. So not only does your argument rely on one of several possible meanings of a particular phrase, but GW has already specifically stated what they mean when they say "as if", and it doesn't align with what you claim.

Just because you want the rule to work your way because you would lose your squad doesn't mean anything.

Just because you want the rule to work your way because your opponent would lose his squad doesn't mean anything.

I actually virtually never use reserves with disembarked squads anyways, so I really have no stake in this.

Give me a ruling from a tournament venue like adepticon. You have nothing. Check with your local GW store and they will tell you the same.

Neither tournament rulings nor GW store employee opinions are relevant. There isn't a certification class that grants them special authority to settle disputes, outside of their own events of course. They are simply a third party to settle arguments so that tournaments run smoothly, not an infallible source of knowledge.

And, since the FAQ I mentioned above come from GW staff, I did in fact provide a ruling to directly undermine your argument. Who's got nothing now?

[s_harrington]

Heh. Darklink got trolled.

Wonders never cease.

[SeattleDV8]

hahah. I like the Princess Bride reference. Nice and subtle, big man, Andre.

Heh, glad you caught that.

[Nightspawn]

It's not a doubt that they could jump over them if they were on the board already. The problem comes where they are suppose to start their movement from.

In the rule book it says " Each model's move is measured from the table edge of the battlefield, as if they had been positioned just off the board edge in the previous turn and moved as normal.".

Doesn't every model have to do this including jump infantry? Being just off the board edge just like everyone else would stop them from coming onto the board. True?

They are not available in the previous turn to set up there. So when they become avaiable they wouldn't be there if an enemy is on that edge.

If the measuring point to move the jump guys is the board edge then they can't do it because they will be within one inch of the enemy.