Do Grey Knights Deserve the Hate?

[jmach]

As a GK player myself I have to say I really miss my old daemonhunters dex. It made it really seem like the numbers were against me when I played them, though they seemed to have a problem keeping up due to wargear.

Here are my personal thoughs of what they could do and not hurt them too bad but bring them back in line...

Nades
I wouldn't mind if they got rid of psychotroke nades completely, rad nades aren't as bad in my opinion since the old Grey Knights had str 6 weapons, those combined with hammerhand brings that back to what it was only with guys that have weapon skill 4 instead of 5 so it's a little less of an affect. On the flip side they're all force weapons.

Nemesis Force Weapons
To address that I would be fine to have the strike squad guys have regular weapons and have the justicars have power weapons like before.

Halberds could in my opinion be dropped down to only adding +1 initiative instead for the +2 and keep the same cost.

Units
Let all terminators be the weapon skill 5 and keep force weapons just increase cost by 5 points each. Since they're supposed to be the best that GK have to offer. Since they don't have storm shields as an option I don't think that's unreasonable, going along with the idea that halberds only give

Move purifiers cost up to 35 points each if and increase their weapons skill to 5. Also keep it to 1 special weapon per 5 guys, they're not a heavy weapons team.

Increase cost of psybolt ammo for Dreadnaughts to 20 points.

[DarkLink]

35pts per purifiers is horribly overpriced. 24pts per model for an elite choice with their abilities is actually pretty fair, it's mostly their upgrades that are underpriced. Psycannons are cheap, Halberds and Hammers are cheap, but not the base model themselves. Just bumping up all the psycannons to 15-20pts each codex wide and keeping Purifier Halberds at 4-5pts and Hammers at 10 would be more than appropriate.

Boys won't tie up GK, they'll die horribly from purifying flame and disintegrate when they lose combat due to fearless.

I missed this, but this made me facepalm. You really missed the whole point of what I said here. And by the way, Purifiers are the only things with Cleansing Flame, so obviously this doesn't apply to them. Believe it or not, there are other units in the GK codex.

Now, I'm not talking about multiple rounds of combat. I'm talking first round of combat. The Boyz get into base contact with 9/10 Paladins. The Nobz and Ghaz then get into base contact with the 10th Paladin. Done properly, only one or two Paladins will be able to direct attacks at the Nobz. We don't care what happens to the Boyz.

Paladins strike, and kill maybe two Nobz because they can allocate so few attacks to them. The Nobz are then free to do as they please. Ghaz hits with his 7 klaw attacks, any klaws in the Nob squad hits, and the Boyz Nob hits with his claw if he's still alive.

You don't need to have that many Klaws in the Nob squad to do a lot of damage. Even Paladins will feel the hurt from Ghaz and a Nob squad with just a couple of Klaws. Not enough to finish off Driago and friends on their own, but you still have the rest of your army as well.

But against most GK units, this here will do a lot of damage. And against any GK unit that doesn't have attached HQs, Nobz are very good. They have to save their psychic power for their force weapons, so they're hitting on 4's and wounding on 4's, and GKs don't actually have that many attacks. The Nobz will take a couple of casualties, then the leftover Klaws will kill the 8-9 GKs. Nobz don't care much about Cleansing Flame, either.



This is not theory. This is my practical experience. I've seen it happen, and I've had it done to me by ork players who knew what they were doing.

[jmach]

I was talking of 35 points for them with halberds and granting them weaponskill 5, I miss having WS 5 grey knights. But after thinking more I would say 30 points for those things would be more appropriate.

[Uncle Nutsy]

lemme tell you a little story of when Duke Sliscus took after a GK IC.

Duke went in on full charge towards the one lone character, and got greeted with grenades. Sure he got reduced down to one attack but you know what? that didn't matter. because that one attack, while missing the intended target, BLOCKED the incoming blow. Duke and that IC had blades locked together, staring at each other with the hate that could boil a mans' blood. All guns fell silent and everyone in the battle stopped and stared at what was going on just to see who would win.

Next round they pulled back their weapons, swung and in the end.. The Duke dove, caught that IC right in the chestplate and looked right at him, searching for that subtle and satisfying facial expression. That poor IC realizing what just happened, looked back at Duke. With a sickeningly sadistic grin, Duke twisted his blade in the cavity and slowly withdrew his blade, letting that IC listen to each clink the serrations made on the armour and letting the poisons do their work. After he fell dead, the duke said only one word. "weak."


so if done right, GK's fall, like any other marine.

[juliannehough]

Ill answer to my play style and list (full terminator and psyflemen dreads)

1. Not too easily, I find in most of my games, I win on KPs at the end of turn 6 or 7, mainly due to the ammount of vehichles / transports I can pop

2. I would think swarm armys like nids would be tough to defeat (although ive not yet played against them) due to my low model count on the board. The focus would be on surviving

3. If I had to guess why people hate on GKs so much is that they are a very difficult army to play against, as close combat is almost out of the question due to halberds jumping iniative, and everyone having a power weapon. I think the hate doubles when its an all terminator list they are going against.

4. I think GKs are very fun to play, especially with all terminators. Its a very intimidating sight to see 4 groups of terminators deepstrike into play on a 3+ on turn 2 (taking a grand master for psychic communion) when they plant themselves within 24" of their intended target. Psycannons = win.

As far as taking other units such as purgiton squads, strike squads, assasins and the such I cant really speak to - but im sure more answers will be coming in soon

[Rapture]

so if done right, GK's fall, like any other marine.

Valuable input. Maybe you should read the thread?

[bfmusashi]

Aw, someone's got their cranky panties on.

[Bean]

Valuable input. Maybe you should read the thread?

Given that he's essentially right, I'm not sure what you mean. =P

[Uncle Nutsy]

Valuable input. Maybe you should read the thread?

reading the thread versus.. actually playing against them.

yeah i'd rather take practical experience any day. LOL.

oh and just to humour you, I did read the thread. specifically your posts, which really were a lot of 'waaah'.

[DarkLink]

Valuable input. Maybe you should read the thread?

Valuable input. Maybe you should quit being a dick and return to the topic instead of harping on other posters.